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**** Chelsea v Tottenham Hotspur ****

Discussion in 'Spurs News & Views' started by markysimmo, 22 Jan 2022.

  1. DubaiSpur

    DubaiSpur Paul Walsh

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    Sigh. As with Poch, are we in for another round of 'manager says what is wrong and what he wants in plain English 100 times but half of GG decides that isn't what he means, really'? :p
     
  2. DeanoAustin

    DeanoAustin John Lacy

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    This is the problem. People look at games in hand and think "we win these we overtake Chelsea" and start to expect it. Three of our games in hand are:

    Burnley - A
    Brighton - A
    Arsenal - H

    I wouldn't expect to win any of those. If we take anything above 6 points, we're doing very well. Individually, we could beat any of those teams but collectively, it's a massive ask.

    And if we do drop points, that's when fans start throwing toys out of the pram.

    We won't catch Chelsea. They've had a bit of a wobble but they'll kick on from here. 4th is the best we can do this season and if Conte does that, it's some achievement.
     
  3. ricky2tricky4city

    ricky2tricky4city Rafael Van Der Vaart

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    All teams perform better when you luck into or appoint a great/top level manager.

    Chelsea looked great with Lampard ?
    Man United looked great with Moyes LVG OGS etc ?

    The quality of your manager is a difference maker. Same team, different outcomes. To say 'that is the level of the squad' when you have a bad/average one is disingenuous.

    Man U and Chelsea have all the backing they want, but those squads did better (well, not Man U yet:)) with better managers. They are literally doing what they are paid to do, but doing it better.
     
  4. harr1984

    harr1984 Pedro Mendes

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    Chelsea’s last four games before us that they didn’t win were against Brighton twice, Liverpool and Emirates Marketing Project and the only game they lost was to Emirates Marketing Project during which time we made up ground with some easier fixtures. Chelsea will have a period where they have some nice fluffy fixtures and pull away from us, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation if we didn’t have a load of fixtures bunched up at home to bottom half of the table teams. It’s not that Conte isn’t doing a decent job, but we are not anywhere close to Chelsea in terms of quality on the pitch or squad depth and those factors make a difference throughout a season…..
     
  5. billyiddo

    billyiddo Garth Crooks Staff Member

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    We probably won't catch Chelsea and I'm not expecting it but it's not as out of the question as you and harr have made it out to be
     
  6. ricky2tricky4city

    ricky2tricky4city Rafael Van Der Vaart

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    What he is (constantly) saying is 'there is lots of work to do, improvements to be made and I have decided who I don't need and positions I need new players for. This will take time, one window will not fix this, it could be years to get to the level (Chelsea city etc)'

    The last sentence is probably for you. The melodramaista's....who bang on and on every week as if they've got eff all else in their lives. He's managing expectations and being a realist. ie stating the effing obvious.
     
    Last edited: 24 Jan 2022
    billyiddo likes this.
  7. glasgowspur

    glasgowspur Les Ferdinand

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    Chelsea big problem will come when the players and tuchel fall out.
    Chelsea as a squad are underperforming, and have done for quite a few years.
    As much as I think we have a culture issue in the club, i beginning to think Chelsea have as well.
    Not as bad as ours obviously, but its there.
     
    harr1984 likes this.
  8. DubaiSpur

    DubaiSpur Paul Walsh

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    Aye, but what gets me is that the equally manically online folks who identify with ENIC to an alarming degree then take those bits where he clearly says he needs players and the squad is brick, and then...just seem to either ignore it or downplay it.

    It's happened with Poch, it happened with Mourinho, it happened with Nuno, it's happening with Conte. Every single one has called our squad sh*te and in need of investment in so many words, and every time, there's a swarm of folks who instantly arrive crying about how it's being melodramatic to take them at their word and everything is fine and dandy with the club.

    It is intensely weird, tbh. Especially since it's not like we've been flying all this time - we've gotten steadily, clearly worse, and every one of the managers we have had has said as much, as bluntly - but for the folks who back ENIC come what may, forever and ever, just taking them at their word seems to be melodramatic, and instead we should believe they are A-Okay with things and are just 'managing expectations'. That last line is probably for you. ;)

    We are in a transfer window. Conte has called for signings to improve this crap squad he has. We have predictably made none, sitting on our hands, for 24 days, while more ambitious clubs have.

    Can we agree on these facts, or are they too melodramatic?
     
  9. ricky2tricky4city

    ricky2tricky4city Rafael Van Der Vaart

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    I think there is a chance of this.

    I have a feeling Tuchels skills do not stretch to dressing room problems, off field issues and personality clashes
     
  10. braineclipse

    braineclipse Gary Stevens

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    Agreed.

    Everything should happen as quickly as possible. But not quicker than that.

    It's better to not sign a player than to sign the wrong player.
     
  11. glasgowspur

    glasgowspur Les Ferdinand

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    I think its deeper than that tbh, that squad is better than its trophy haul over the last five years imho.
    Its almost like they only win a trophy when they need to to save their arses.
     
  12. ricky2tricky4city

    ricky2tricky4city Rafael Van Der Vaart

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    'Manically online folk who identify with Enic'?..I think they're staying well away from being online.:)

    We all agree with what the man says. He's excellent after all. But the energy expelled on 'hes gonna walk, he's not being backed' would power a small country.
    Just not talking about it everyday and bringing the megaphones and sledgehammers out everytime something negative happens. The man needs time, this behaviour is not conducive to this. The SM storm feeds the MSM storm it's a constant feedback loop.
     
    Baleforce and glasgowspur like this.
  13. ricky2tricky4city

    ricky2tricky4city Rafael Van Der Vaart

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    Yep too melodramatic.
    Villa and?
    It's really Paratici you're moaning at there. I'm sure Conte and him speak all the time.

    I agree with some of your squad assessment. ie old back ups now starters. But since Pochs last summer window we have spent a decent amount of money. Enough to be top 4 quality.
    But I am beginning to think those windows since have been worse than when we bought nobody.
    Ndombele Lo Celso should be our midfield (no need for Winks)
    Not sure if Bergwijn and Sesss bodies can hold up to the prem
    Sanchez doesn't look top 4 ..though cost top 4 money .
    Moura isn't really a system player
    Doherty is lost
    Clark?
    And we owe £170m to other clubs for the privilege.

    We simply have to spend the money better. Whether Paratici is ticking that box we'll have to see.
     
  14. glasgowspur

    glasgowspur Les Ferdinand

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    The MSM keep trotting out the "success at spurs" line.
    Well what is success for spurs?
    Playing in a league with two of the biggest clubs in the world (utd and Liverpool), and a club own and bankrolled by one of the wealthiest countries in the world, and Chelsea a club with a billionaire owner.
    Where should we place there?
    Then theres arsenal, Leicester and maybe even everton that could all be expected to possibly in a better situation than us.
    Hos many of them should we consistently expect to finish above?

    Why are we held to such high expectations?
    Arsenal are in limbo, Everton are a disaster, Leicester batting above their average, but that's a low bar.
    What's success for them?
    Have we been knocked out of any of the domestic cups by teams we shouldn't have?
     
  15. ricky2tricky4city

    ricky2tricky4city Rafael Van Der Vaart

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    They are saving their arses quite regularly though :)
     
  16. Baleforce

    Baleforce Steve Archibald

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    He’s not going to walk, we’ll spend what we can afford to spend, on players identified as improvements.

    Same as it ever was.
     
  17. DubaiSpur

    DubaiSpur Paul Walsh

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    Oh, I disagree. They usually show even before the anti-ENIC folks do - gotta get those deflections in early, after all. ;)

    The thing is, the reason why I don't mind (and even encourage) the energy being spent on scrutiny of the club's approach and the squad rn is because we need it.

    We badly need that urgency - we've operated with too much of a sense of complacency in past years, and it has cost us badly.

    And right now, people are seeing us make the same mistakes again - the excuses coming up for why January is difficult, the squad isn't actually that bad, etc, etc.

    And what many, many folks are pointing out is that Conte is not a man who takes complacency lightly. You might think the refrain of 'he'll walk' is overused, but this man literally left title-winning Inter Milan after two years because he felt he couldn't continue there. And all his public signals to date in January have been about how a) this squad is crap, and b) he needs players.

    As someone pro-ENIC, you should be happy so many folks are trying desperately to wake the club up as to the need to be bold and gut this crap squad. On my end, as I've said before, if he stays and is backed, I'm happy - if he isn't and leaves, I will at least be consoled, because public opinion will finally turn on ENIC completely. ;)
     
  18. glasgowspur

    glasgowspur Les Ferdinand

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    What's your definition of success?
    I don't think anyone on here thinks conte can walk in and turn us into a title winning side in two years. This isn't Italy.
    There isn't a man born who could do that.
    It's something that puzzles me about all of this, conte must have known this, so he's here to build or a payout. Doesn't strike me as a payout kind of person.
    There's a lot of interesting little scenarios going on and it will be interesting to see how they play out.
     
  19. ricky2tricky4city

    ricky2tricky4city Rafael Van Der Vaart

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    I think we agree with every word the man says and the remit and promises he's been given coming in the door (why would anyone think anything different).

    Conte is very clear and plays with a straight bat. That's nice.

    He'll walk if anyone deviates from what they have promised, as it hinders him to achieve his goals.

    He has a good relationship with a man he has worked with before at the club.

    If Levy as given them a budget (that must of been agreed on the way in), let them get on with it. Levy has fed in the financials, Conte has now fed in his requirements, Paratici has to do his job (or 'cooking' if you're a Twitter nerd).

    Fwiw I don't think the budget is big for January but can be supplemented with some sales of the unwanted. I'm surprised it all hasn't been tied up on day one, but I haven't a clue how many levers to pull and cogs to turn there are.

    But I'm sure no amount of shouting will help the process...except prompt the man 'who is being let down' to once again reiterate that 'we need time, patience'
     
    DubaiSpur likes this.
  20. Bedfordspurs

    Bedfordspurs Jack L. Jones

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    You are reinventing things there though
    Winks wasn’t benched for Dembele or wanyama… that’s a very different team to the one he came in

    and Dier played CB with Toby and Verts regularly and also midfield in front of them. In their peak years here he averaged 32 leagues a season

    but I agree you can find faults with them of course
     

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