Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Fair comment indeed, and I think the more isolated conversations become, the more ludicrous these things get. I am part of that too. I will say that I have praised his introduction of Bentaleb many times, indeed, I liked the player when most here were ****ging him off! Ditto Ade. But he has ceased to function these last 6-8 weeks IMO and is now solely reliant on the quality and professionalism of the players he puts out there. makes me wonder what was possible, further, it makes me lament what a missed opportunity this season has been in so many ways. it will hurt us for a long time.

I don't think that we would be getting the results we are getting if the players were making it up amongst themselves (I know that you disagree). I also don't think that we would have seen a second half fightback like we had at WBA if this was the case.

I am completely behind you in criticising his increasingly bizarre press statements, I really think that he could be looking at getting a contract extension this summer if he had been Mr Corporate in public. I also think that his behaviour on the sideline has been an unnecessary distraction. I think his constant switching of how he approaches a game, whilst understandable for a rookie, make him look like he does not know what he is doing. I also think that his temper has got the better of him on a number of occasions, I'm sure that we as fans have all felt like this in the past, but the manager is the one person that you need to keep a cool head and view things objectively.

So in summary, I would like to see more coolness and objectivity from both Sherwood and everyone here [-o<

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I don't think that we would be getting the results we are getting if the players were making it up amongst themselves (I know that you disagree). I also don't think that we would have seen a second half fightback like we had at WBA if this was the case.

I am completely behind you in criticising his increasingly bizarre press statements, I really think that he could be looking at getting a contract extension this summer if he had been Mr Corporate in public. I also think that his behaviour on the sideline has been an unnecessary distraction. I think his constant switching of how he approaches a game, whilst understandable for a rookie, make him look like he does not know what he is doing. I also think that his temper has got the better of him on a number of occasions, I'm sure that we as fans have all felt like this in the past, but the manager is the one person that you need to keep a cool head and view things objectively.

So in summary, I would like to see more coolness and objectivity from both Sherwood and everyone here [-o<

Indeed…how great it would've been to see him learn!

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Interesting you say that, ive been arguing the case for TS partly because im not one to just go overboard and wanting him out without any appropriate succession planning. The majority on here, and i harp on about this phrase wany 'anyone but Tim'.

I would be happy for TS to stay but also of the mindset that if someone proven and someone who can be regarded as having the ability to take us to the higher level is available I would be happy too.

If FDB would only come next summer then id happily stick with TS yet people on here would be happy with settling for 'second best' just because it fits in with their agenda and motive of 'anyone but Tim'.

Why wouldn't we take second best when second (third, fourth, twentieth, etc) are demonstrably better than what we have?

I don't understand why we would take a far, far worse option just because he's already here.

 

[DHSF]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I agree in part but I am not sure that I would go as far as be willing to wait until next summer for FDB because I would be worried that we would be gazumped by a bigger club if he had another good season at Ajax.

What I find odd is people giving Sherwood no credit for keeping the points coming in whilst all of the speculation about his future has been going on and blooding a few youngsters in the first team at the same time. And for all of the speculation from his critics about a disgruntled squad, we keep fighting back, when the squad could have easily chucked in the towel like Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Plenty of proven managers would have fallen under the same circumstances.

That is true but then you gotta keep him on a pre-contract which I doubt he would sign. I just think that FDB would be excellent I really do. A hunch more than anything of substance to back it up.

I agree about TS not getting credit and out of sync with the players - he clearly isnt if the players ARE still getting results. Thats why id be happy to keep TS until the right man is available. You can get far worse interims - look at Adams at Norwich dare I say it.

 

[DHSF]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Why wouldn't we take second best when second (third, fourth, twentieth, etc) are demonstrably better than what we have?

I don't understand why we would take a far, far worse option just because he's already here.

Because id rather have the best option and I seriously think FDB would be. Now if he were to tell us to **** off thats one thing but if he is interested and wait a year (although should have some kind of pre-agreement) then I would wait.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Indeed…how great it would've been to see him learn!

:ross:

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Because id rather have the best option and I seriously think FDB would be. Now if he were to tell us to **** off thats one thing but if he is interested and wait a year (although should have some kind of pre-agreement) then I would wait.

So why not improve upon what we have for a year and replace him if there's better available after that year? If the best choice isn't available after a year then we've improved on what we had anyway.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Why wouldn't we take second best when second (third, fourth, twentieth, etc) are demonstrably better than what we have?

I don't understand why we would take a far, far worse option just because he's already here.

I think that you are letting your dislike of the man get in the way of your normal business nouse. We constantly criticise Levy for a lack of long term vision but when he does show signs of having one, putting in place an interim until his first/second choice coach becomes available, people slate him for it and say that he should have jumped into a short term appointment.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

:ross:

\o/

 

[DHSF]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So why not improve upon what we have for a year and replace him if there's better available after that year? If the best choice isn't available after a year then we've improved on what we had anyway.

Because thats just swapping another temp for a current one without any guarantees that the new temp would get better results than the current temp - you seem to be missing the point that results wise TS is very good. Its the performances and everything else that you and the majority dont appear to rate - which is fine but doesnt mean we can afford to just go through another period of transition. Next managerial appointment will be crucial and as far as im concerned id a) happily live with the current temp and b) bide my time in finding someone who will be here and build something - FDB is and seems to be that man. LVG I didnt want. FDB could be dare I say it our Diego Simeone.

 

[harr1984]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

As ever in our discussions, a fair post. I would argue that he has done a 'good job'…he had done some good things in his job, but I don't believe he has done a good job necessarily. IMV...

That's fair enough, certainly as good a compliment as Sherwood will be getting from you!

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So why not improve upon what we have for a year and replace him if there's better available after that year? If the best choice isn't available after a year then we've improved on what we had anyway.

I think that the scenario that DHSF talks about is pretty unlikely. Why not focus on what actually happened which is that Frank de Boer and Louis van Gaal were unavailable in December, so Levy decided to put Sherwood in temporary charge and wait until the summer. This has not cost us anything and Sherwood has picked up more points per game than the man he replaced. It has been a car crash of a season and there is plenty to criticise both managers for but if we secure FdB then I would say that Levy has been pretty canny.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

\o/

You, you may say. I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one...

 

[JerusalemMan]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think that the scenario that DHSF talks about is pretty unlikely. Why not focus on what actually happened which is that Frank de Boer and Louis van Gaal were unavailable in December, so Levy decided to put Sherwood in temporary charge and wait until the summer. This has not cost us anything and Sherwood has picked up more points per game than the man he replaced. It has been a car crash of a season and there is plenty to criticise both managers for but if we secure FdB then I would say that Levy has been pretty canny.

Quite so

 

[chancer]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So why not improve upon what we have for a year and replace him if there's better available after that year? If the best choice isn't available after a year then we've improved on what we had anyway.

Scara, that is farcical and you know it.

Do you give the guy money knowing the next coach mightn't want any of the new players? Do you get the coach's whole support staff in? Do you let him get rid of players from our squad he doesn't want?

When this guy signs his contract, do you look him in the eye and lie to him that he's our man, knowing all along that you're ready to ditch him at any moment? And would he even believe you in the first place when you lie? What would this kind of fannying around do for the club's reputation and ability to recruit coaches and players?

In fact, your point proves the opposite to what you think it proves: it proves just how silly it is to settle for something less than a top-tier choice. The "year of improvement" you refer to wouldn't be an improvement at all in the medium term. It would be the illusion of change, because the real change (wink wink) would be coming when the next guy arrives. Change for changes sake. Ridiculous.

I also find it impossible to believe you don't at least understand this point, but for some bizarre reason you keep acting like you don't. You might disagree with the point, but for GHod's sake stop pretending you don't understand it.

 

[Ginola99]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

"Somewhere along the line someone is telling porkies" & "It will just be a shame that we didn't start the season any better" - Sherwood responds to manager rumours -

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...peculation-over-tottenham-future-9308516.html

Edit for better link

 

[DHSF]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Scara, that is farcical and you know it.

Do you give the guy money knowing the next coach mightn't want any of the new players? Do you get the coach's whole support staff in? Do you let him get rid of players from our squad he doesn't want?

When this guy signs his contract, do you look him in the eye and lie to him that he's our man, knowing all along that you're ready to ditch him at any moment? And would he even believe you in the first place when you lie? What would this kind of fannying around do for the club's reputation and ability to recruit coaches and players?

In fact, your point proves the opposite to what you think it proves: it proves just how silly it is to settle for something less than a top-tier choice. The "year of improvement" you refer to wouldn't be an improvement at all in the medium term. It would be the illusion of change, because the real change (wink wink) would be coming when the next guy arrives. Change for changes sake. Ridiculous.

I also find it impossible to believe you don't at least understand this point, but for some bizarre reason you keep acting like you don't. You might disagree with the point, but for GHod's sake stop pretending you don't understand it.

I dont do this often but its a good post. I think people are letting their hatred for TS get in the way of good and sound as well as realistic decision making.

At my firm we are desperate for staff, I have been interviewing some right numpties this week, all have been turned away. I only want those who will be long term, committed and ultimately a very very good chance of being successful. I dont care how desperate we are. Under TS I dont think we are that desperate simply because whilst the rest of TS is clouded by uncertainty, one thing you cant debate is the results he is getting.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Because id rather have the best option and I seriously think FDB would be. Now if he were to tell us to **** off thats one thing but if he is interested and wait a year (although should have some kind of pre-agreement) then I would wait.

This is completely unrealistic and thus irrelevant.

We're not going to get a guarantee from de Boer (or anyone else we'd want) that they'll come a year from now.

I don't see any good reason to think that our available options will be better next season than this season.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Scara, that is farcical and you know it.

Do you give the guy money knowing the next coach mightn't want any of the new players? Do you get the coach's whole support staff in? Do you let him get rid of players from our squad he doesn't want?

When this guy signs his contract, do you look him in the eye and lie to him that he's our man, knowing all along that you're ready to ditch him at any moment? And would he even believe you in the first place when you lie? What would this kind of fannying around do for the club's reputation and ability to recruit coaches and players?

In fact, your point proves the opposite to what you think it proves: it proves just how silly it is to settle for something less than a top-tier choice. The "year of improvement" you refer to wouldn't be an improvement at all in the medium term. It would be the illusion of change, because the real change (wink wink) would be coming when the next guy arrives. Change for changes sake. Ridiculous.

I also find it impossible to believe you don't at least understand this point, but for some bizarre reason you keep acting like you don't. You might disagree with the point, but for GHod's sake stop pretending you don't understand it.

Every single one of those points apply to every manager (I'll be generous and call Timmeh a manager in this instance).

They don't apply any less to Timmeh than they do LVG, FDB, or you and I. So why not apply those risks to the best manager we can even if that manager turns out to be an interim one?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think that the scenario that DHSF talks about is pretty unlikely. Why not focus on what actually happened which is that Frank de Boer and Louis van Gaal were unavailable in December, so Levy decided to put Sherwood in temporary charge and wait until the summer. This has not cost us anything and Sherwood has picked up more points per game than the man he replaced. It has been a car crash of a season and there is plenty to criticise both managers for but if we secure FdB then I would say that Levy has been pretty canny.

I think that given Timmeh's clear character faults (which were clear before he became caretaker), we were as well off living with AVB's faults and having a professional in charge until replacement time.