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The trigger for our down-turn?

Mulletperm said:
No not an over-reaction. Our form has been woeful since the beginning of 2019.
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You could argue that 'woeful' is in itself an over-reaction considering in that time we finished 4th and reached a CL final. I would also say we had a fantastic start to last season and so regressed towards the mean in the latter half. I seem to remember a game (Southampton/Burnley?) away when Poch lost his brick at FT which could be seen as a turning point, or perhaps a sign things weren't great behind the scenes. Either way, our bad end of last season/start of this has cost him his job and now we have to give the new manager time to implement his ideas/get his players in, the second of which may prove to be difficult.
 
galeforce said:
Selling him when we did made sense, his form had fallen off a cliff.

I think a bigger factor was Poch getting too close to some players and not being able to give them a kick up the arse when they slacked off, despite his words about being paid to train, standards dropped, performances followed.
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Here we go with the Poch slagging... No wonder most opposing fans think we're pricks, we are.

Watch Poch's interview with Linekar, he said the words "PAINFUL REBUILD".

Was he wrong?
 
Diamond Lights said:
Here we go with the Poch slagging... No wonder most opposing fans think we're pricks, we are.

Watch Poch's interview with Linekar, he said the words "PAINFUL REBUILD".

Was he wrong?
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No
Bit did he for example change his coaches?
The top ones do, regularly
Did he kick agree to buy some shockers?
He did although as rightly argued it won’t have been all him
Did he write a book on his bravery and experiences?
Yes and it talked about his time here with players we still had
Did he manage to shift players he didn’t want?
No. He actually had Danny Rose in his office after training coaching him...

Poch did so many brilliant things. He also made mistakes like anyone
 
Rorschach said:
This is a good thread.

For me there are a confluence of reasons why we climbed almost to the top of the pile, and similarly more than one reason why we are in decline now. Most of those have already been covered.

To add to the discussion I would also add that Poch did not learn one of SAFs greatest lessons. That is that coaching team needs to be refreshed periodically too. You can buy into a coaching philosophy for so long but it looses it's power over you after a while. You need fresh voices and/or fresh ears and we had neither.

Our failure to win something, even a smaller trophy, compounded the other problems. Winning anything changes the mindset and would have prolonged our time at the sharp end, IMO.
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Great post and bang on the money, but i do not expect the " chicken lickens" to accept that.

treepits said:
Yesterday was pretty wretched but is this thread a bit of an over-reaction? And a down-turn from when? When we reached a CL final just over a year ago? When we MASSIVELY overachieved and finished 2nd? When we were absolutely embarrassing during most of the 90s and 2000s? When we were winning the double in 1961? Our level when compared to others wage/transfer budget/ size of club is probably 5th-6th (thats being generous) so yes, we're having a poor season with a few probable reasons for that but we're not alone in having a poor season. Someone mentioned above that in Klopp's first season at Liverpool, they finished 8th, by their standards thats an awful season but look at them now. Let's not turn into a certain neighbours TV station and spunk off every time we win and start demanding answers when we lose
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Another great post.
 
Haven't read the whole thread...

For me the one thing that stands out is sticking with Pochettino when he (in hindsight at least) seemed to lack the focus/determination/happiness that was so important while he was successful.

I know people will disagree saying that Levy should have kept him happy by giving him more money, signing different players etc.

He had stayed at the club for a fairly long time. Longer than he had at any club before. Perhaps he could have continued his success, but it's a difficult thing.
 
I still feel like the Walker sale was a mistake. Especially to City. We basically said if you moan a bit we will let you go and treble your wages and pick up some trophies. We’ve never replaced him, helped City out and I think it sent a message that we weren’t yet a top club. There have been lots of things happen since that contributes to where we are now but that was the first time I’d questioned a move we’d made for quite a while.
 
2 things played a big part.
1. Dembele. We could not replace him because he was Irreplaceable.
2. Not getting Eriksen to sign a new contract
 
Bedfordspurs said:
So Liverpool gave Klopp 3 seasons... and also doubled the wages and of course spent mega money to get ahead of us

I also read today that united spent £220m so far under Ole To improve the team Jose left that actually won them some trophies

So money and time matter, who would have thought it
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We only have the best we've had since Burky one of those. Imagine if we'd squeezed a few extra quid, or decided to go for the rebuild as a MkII and not fallen for the "charms" of Mou?
 
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