Width

[the dza]

I think Poch's team could transisition to more of a diamond midfield, with another striker in place of Eriksen or Lamela. The '3' we play behind Kane all like to play infield anyway. So instead of midfield/forward lineup of:

-------dier----dembele
---lamela----alli----eriksen
------------kane

we'd be more like:

------------dier
----alli--------------dembele
------------eriksen
-------kane-----new striker

*edit - width from full-backs, same as now.

 

[glasgowspur]

Wingers to to out crosses into an empty box, or for eriksen and Lamella as the runners to win headers? Sorry, not going to work.
We need a focus for our attacks, Harry is trying to do everything. Against Leicester he ran out to take a thrown in 30 yards from goal and today he ran out to take a corner.... Get in the box. We have games by the throat and try and kill them to quick. Patience.

 

[Modric THFC]

People said the same thing under AVB.
Width was the solution.

The problem in the first half was tempo.
Everyone took too many touches.

Poch is never gonna play with wingers.
Its not part of his pressing in numbers gameplan.
You cant press a centre half on the ball if you have two players on the touchlines.
Its a waste of time complaining about wingers with Poch.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I just felt for my liking today Rose was a bit too narrow when Sunderland were camped out. If he was wider it would have given Sunderland a different problem.

Though when Rose earn the pen he had 'got in behind'. Its not just width, it is getting around the back - 'in behind'. What does that mean? Van Arnholt did it against us for their goal. Essentially getting around the back of the defence, instead of trying to go through the middle.

There are a number of issues, tempo was mentioned above. Doubling up out wide - so one player is in possession on the flank with another sprinting into the space to get around the back - we don't see that. Too often the player in possession is isolated out wide on the touch line and can only cross or play the ball back infield. Its too static.

 

[Bullet]

You cant press a centre half on the ball if you have two players on the touchlines.
Its a waste of time complaining about wingers with Poch.

Not true, the fullbacks can be on the touchlines.
I think this thread got derailed talking about WINGERS.
What I mean is that the fullbacks need to stay wide, whereas Rose keeps coming infield 20 yards and standing next to Eriksen with nobody on the touchline.

This is equivalent to playing on a pitch that is 60 yards wide instead of 90 (or whatever the dimensions are).
We would never agree to playing on a pitch that narrow when attacking, we would never allow it... yet we do it to ourselves!
You have to use the space allowed, just having somebody out wide gives us options and spreads the defence out.

 

[braineclipse]

I get the ever increasing feeling that Lamela and Eriksen risk becoming for us the equivalent what the Lampard and Gerrard combo was for England. Both extremely good players but who - irrespective of where you play them - end up gravitating to exactly the same places on the pitch, getting into each other's way and unbalancing the team.

There were times in the first half when the two of them, Alli and Kane were camped (or cramped) out in a square not more than a few yards from the edge of the box meaning Sunderland could just snuff them out by piling players around them.

In addition, they seem to offer exactly the same kind of threat, with little variation between them; their goal scoring threat is extremely low - godsmacked that today were the first goals in open play for Eriksen for a year! True... this was not helped by the full backs but irrespective whether it is Walker/Davies or Trippier/Rose, the end result seems to be the same: congested central area with very little width to our play.

We could do so much with either a winger or with a striker who would allow Kane to drop deep and offer an alternative option to our attack which has becoming somewhat predicable

Form is different to ability. Eriksen clearly has the ability to score quite a few goals. I'm not sure there are many traditional wingers in world football with more goalscoring potential from the wide left position than Eriksen...

Lamela too has that potential. Remember they're all fairly young players. Hasn't stepped up his goal scoring in the PL yet. But he showed at Roma that he can score goals and he's started to get into goal scoring positions more and more for us in the league and started scoring the EL. I think more goals will come.

He's a massive b3llend, but..

He says it in the first sentence 'here I am, occupying the right back' Again at 2:40, their full back 'can't mark two men at the same time'

It suits the defending team to keep everything congested, it suits the attacking team to spread the play, tire the other team out and try and find spaces between the centre backs and full backs.

People said the same thing under AVB.
Width was the solution.

The problem in the first half was tempo.
Everyone took too many touches.

Poch is never gonna play with wingers.
Its not part of his pressing in numbers gameplan.
You cant press a centre half on the ball if you have two players on the touchlines.
Its a waste of time complaining about wingers with Poch.

I get the ever increasing feeling that Lamela and Eriksen risk becoming for us the equivalent what the Lampard and Gerrard combo was for England. Both extremely good players but who - irrespective of where you play them - end up gravitating to exactly the same places on the pitch, getting into each other's way and unbalancing the team.

There were times in the first half when the two of them, Alli and Kane were camped (or cramped) out in a square not more than a few yards from the edge of the box meaning Sunderland could just snuff them out by piling players around them.

In addition, they seem to offer exactly the same kind of threat, with little variation between them; their goal scoring threat is extremely low - godsmacked that today were the first goals in open play for Eriksen for a year! True... this was not helped by the full backs but irrespective whether it is Walker/Davies or Trippier/Rose, the end result seems to be the same: congested central area with very little width to our play.

We could do so much with either a winger or with a striker who would allow Kane to drop deep and offer an alternative option to our attack which has becoming somewhat predicable

He's a massive b3llend, but..

He says it in the first sentence 'here I am, occupying the right back' Again at 2:40, their full back 'can't mark two men at the same time'

It suits the defending team to keep everything congested, it suits the attacking team to spread the play, tire the other team out and try and find spaces between the centre backs and full backs.

Our wide attacking players, particularly Lamela, has gotten much better at what I think Henry is talking about there. Staying wide or going wide early on in the attack. Then you're free to leave that wide area once the ball goes further forward, opening up space for the full back to attack. When the wide attacking player moves inside too quickly there are problems though.

People said the same thing under AVB.
Width was the solution.

The problem in the first half was tempo.
Everyone took too many touches.

Poch is never gonna play with wingers.
Its not part of his pressing in numbers gameplan.
You cant press a centre half on the ball if you have two players on the touchlines.
Its a waste of time complaining about wingers with Poch.

Agree about tempo. Overall our tempo has been good this season though.

You can definitely play a pressing game with traditional wingers though. I think Pochettino's preference for "inverted wingers" is about our attacking play, not our defending/pressing.

 

[nayenezgani]

I thought this thread was going to be about Fat Sam for some reason.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

I thought this thread was going to be about Fat Sam for some reason.

Actually the thread title I started before the mod hijack was focused on whether Eriksen and Lamela are our Gerrard / Lampard; great individual players but not sufficiently suited to play together in the same team because they were too similar to each other.

Nobody seems to have commented on this....

 

[milo]

Actually the thread title I started before the mod hijack was focused on whether Eriksen and Lamela are our Gerrard / Lampard; great individual players but not sufficiently suited to play together in the same team because they were too similar to each other.

Nobody seems to have commented on this....

I do not see the similarity personally.

I merged the threads because they were both going in the same direction.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

I do not see the similarity personally.

I merged the threads because they were both going in the same direction.

Gerrard and Lampard were quite different players actually; but until Gerrard converted himself into a quarterback at the end of his career they never had a decent game playing together in the same England team - mainly because they occupied the same space in the ground, getting into each other's way and disrupting the team balance.

I was wondering whether the same could be said for Eriksen and Lamela; both want to play as a no 10 - that is crystal clear. They also have very similar qualities unlike Dele or Moussa, who are clearly very different in style and input.

 

[milo]

Gerrard and Lampard were quite different players actually; but until Gerrard converted himself into a quarterback at the end of his career they never had a decent game playing together in the same England team - mainly because they occupied the same space in the ground, getting into each other's way and disrupting the team balance.

I was wondering whether the same could be said for Eriksen and Lamela; both want to play as a no 10 - that is crystal clear. They also have very similar qualities unlike Dele or Moussa, who are clearly very different in style and input.

I don't think that Lamela and Eriksen do have similar qualities.

They probably do both want to play at number 10 but the system that we play and the movement amongst the front four means that they all get to play centrally at times during the game.

 

[Pirate55]

I think Poch's team could transisition to more of a diamond midfield, with another striker in place of Eriksen or Lamela. The '3' we play behind Kane all like to play infield anyway. So instead of midfield/forward lineup of:

-------dier----dembele
---lamela----alli----eriksen
------------kane

we'd be more like:

------------dier
----alli--------------dembele
------------eriksen
-------kane-----new striker

*edit - width from full-backs, same as now.

I like this idea against the teams that sit back. I would have Son in there as the new striker and give him a run to see if he can settle in the PL. He has more trickery in his game, fast over a short burst and knows where the net is.

 

[milo]

@the dza @Pirate55 I don't think that formation would be significantly different to what we play now. Another striker playing behind Kane in a 4-2-3-1 would get into those positions at stages of play. I think that it is something that we frequently from Alli in the current line up too.

 

[the dza]

@the dza @Pirate55 I don't think that formation would be significantly different to what we play now. Another striker playing behind Kane in a 4-2-3-1 would get into those positions at stages of play. I think that it is something that we frequently from Alli in the current line up too.

Yes, but we only currently have one real goal-scorer in the front positions (Kane). If we were to replace one of the play-makers (Lamela/Eriksen) in the lineup with a more natural forward, then as you say, our tactics don't radically change but, imo, it'd give us more cutting edge in attack. Maybe Son could do it if given a run, he's certainly a bit quicker than the other two, I don't really know much about his goalscoring.

 

[milo]

Yes, but we only currently have one real goal-scorer in the front positions (Kane). If we were to replace one of the play-makers (Lamela/Eriksen) in the lineup with a more natural forward, then as you say, our tactics don't radically change but, imo, it'd give us more cutting edge in attack. Maybe Son could do it if given a run, he's certainly a bit quicker than the other two, I don't really know much about his goalscoring.

I don't think that is true. We were the only club in the league to have three players score in double figures last season and all of them are still with us. On top of this, we have added Alli and Lamela is vastly improved. I am not against adding a striker, Townsend out and a striker in would improve the squad but I don't think that it would dramatically change our fortunes.

 

[the dza]

I don't think that is true. We were the only club in the league to have three players score in double figures last season and all of them are still with us. On top of this, we have added Alli and Lamela is vastly improved. I am not against adding a striker, Townsend out and a striker in would improve the squad but I don't think that it would dramatically change our fortunes.

That's a very good point, but I don't feel that Lamela, Eriksen or Chadli provide a consistent goal threat. To me, double figures i.e. 10 is their upper limit. I'd be surprised if 2 of them end up with 10 league goals apiece this season, but fingers crossed.

Last season, Chelsea (when they were good) had Costa with 20 league goals and Hazard with 14 league goals. Arsenal had Giroud with 14 league goals and Sanchez with 16 league goals. Go back to 2013/14, Liverpool had Suarez with 31 league goals and Sturridge with 21, whilst City had Aguero with 17 league goals and Yaya Toure with 20.

Kane is Batman, I think we as a team need someone to be Robin, I think it gives us more of a chance in tight games when we need a goal from somewhere. Having those goals spread around is ok, but another goal-scorer/match-winner can give us the edge in close games whereas more inconsistent goal-scorers probably won't.

All in my humble opinion

 

[milo]

That's a very good point, but I don't feel that Lamela, Eriksen or Chadli provide a consistent goal threat. To me, double figures i.e. 10 is their upper limit. I'd be surprised if 2 of them end up with 10 league goals apiece this season, but fingers crossed.

Last season, Chelsea (when they were good) had Costa with 20 league goals and Hazard with 14 league goals. Arsenal had Giroud with 14 league goals and Sanchez with 16 league goals. Go back to 2013/14, Liverpool had Suarez with 31 league goals and Sturridge with 21, whilst City had Aguero with 17 league goals and Yaya Toure with 20.

Kane is Batman, I think we as a team need someone to be Robin, I think it gives us more of a chance in tight games when we need a goal from somewhere. Having those goals spread around is ok, but another goal-scorer/match-winner can give us the edge in close games whereas more inconsistent goal-scorers probably won't.

All in my humble opinion

Dele Alli has five league goals this season and hasn't played in the front four for many of those games. I would not be surprised if he ended up in double figures and Eriksen could do that too, particularly if he hit form. I don't know if it is still the case but before Christmas I recall seeing a stat that we had more players score a goal this season than any other club in the league.

 

[the dza]

Dele Alli has five league goals this season and hasn't played in the front four for many of those games. I would not be surprised if he ended up in double figures and Eriksen could do that too, particularly if he hit form. I don't know if it is still the case but before Christmas I recall seeing a stat that we had more players score a goal this season than any other club in the league.

Dele Alli could become that player, that's a good shout. He makes a lot of great runs off the ball into the box and he can finish.

 

[milo]

Dele Alli could become that player, that's a good shout. He makes a lot of great runs off the ball into the box and he can finish.

His running past Kane has been excellent these past few months.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That's a very good point, but I don't feel that Lamela, Eriksen or Chadli provide a consistent goal threat. To me, double figures i.e. 10 is their upper limit. I'd be surprised if 2 of them end up with 10 league goals apiece this season, but fingers crossed.

Last season, Chelsea (when they were good) had Costa with 20 league goals and Hazard with 14 league goals. Arsenal had Giroud with 14 league goals and Sanchez with 16 league goals. Go back to 2013/14, Liverpool had Suarez with 31 league goals and Sturridge with 21, whilst City had Aguero with 17 league goals and Yaya Toure with 20.

Kane is Batman, I think we as a team need someone to be Robin, I think it gives us more of a chance in tight games when we need a goal from somewhere. Having those goals spread around is ok, but another goal-scorer/match-winner can give us the edge in close games whereas more inconsistent goal-scorers probably won't.

All in my humble opinion

Erisken had 10 last season I think and chadli had 11 or 12 and both finished in the top ten in the division

We can score when we actually shoot ... What we could t do last season was defend which we can do now

What we need to do is turn the 1-1 into 2-1 rather than thrashing the weak sides and Emirates Marketing Project.

The difference in these draws is the Player who does something different or just tries his luck more... And of course fresh legs that make an impact. We have struggled with subs making impacts a lot IMO as most of our players are teams players and ones that excel at starting. Njie is the only impact sub we have and he is out for a while now. Son struggles to get into games as sub despite his goal at Watford. Chadli doesn't do anything when he comes on. Onomah is so inexperienced he offers hard work and technique but isn't a game changer yet.

Imagin bringing in Berahino to play up front and move Kane back a bit so that he can play 10 and drift wide. The defenders won't know who to pick up and we then have variety