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Why are we such a pushover against the top sides?

Let me see... could it be **** officiating? Seem to remember a game where Dawson had a perfectly good goal disallowed, and City had a penalty and one of our players sent off. Red card was later over turned but the damage had been done. FA Cup semi Chelsea got the goal that never went over the line. League game at Old Trafford. Mendes puts the ball a metre over the line... but no goal... is there a pattern forming here...Hasselbank tripping over his own feet and falling down in the box. Penalty, even though no Spurs player was near him. I could go on and on. No where do I see any dodgy game changing decisions benefiting us, Why is that?
 
We really need someone, anyone at the club to come out regularly when this decisions go against us and have a go at both the officials and the FA, even it if leads to fines. We are far too nice as a club and it's not nice to see us just take it when the top clubs would kick up a colossal ****storm!
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Let me see... could it be **** officiating? Seem to remember a game where Dawson had a perfectly good goal disallowed, and City had a penalty and one of our players sent off. Red card was later over turned but the damage had been done. FA Cup semi Chelsea got the goal that never went over the line. League game at Old Trafford. Mendes puts the ball a metre over the line... but no goal... is there a pattern forming here...Hasselbank tripping over his own feet and falling down in the box. Penalty, even though no Spurs player was near him. I could go on and on. No where do I see any dodgy game changing decisions benefiting us, Why is that?
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I guess the powers that be have no interest in us being in a title fight or having any kind of success.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Let me see... could it be **** officiating? Seem to remember a game where Dawson had a perfectly good goal disallowed, and City had a penalty and one of our players sent off. Red card was later over turned but the damage had been done. FA Cup semi Chelsea got the goal that never went over the line. League game at Old Trafford. Mendes puts the ball a metre over the line... but no goal... is there a pattern forming here...Hasselbank tripping over his own feet and falling down in the box. Penalty, even though no Spurs player was near him. I could go on and on. No where do I see any dodgy game changing decisions benefiting us, Why is that?
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Whilst to a point I agree that decisions go against us and of course they have played a role - only weak people constantly bemoan things like referees. In my view its mentality issues - our players are pansies pure and simple. Look at Lamela today, arms int he air all waving about like a pansy. Stand up man the **** up and get over it. We have too many players who when things go even alittle against them they go into their shell, heads drop and just dont recover.

Where is the leader on that pitch? Where is the guy like a Kompany who will urge and encourage players on? Where is that **** in our team like a Terry? We have no bite no agression. All airy fairy in my view.
 
DHSF said:
Whilst to a point I agree that decisions go against us and of course they have played a role - only weak people constantly bemoan things like referees. In my view its mentality issues - our players are pansies pure and simple. Look at Lamela today, arms int he air all waving about like a pansy. Stand up man the **** up and get over it. We have too many players who when things go even alittle against them they go into their shell, heads drop and just dont recover.

Where is the leader on that pitch? Where is the guy like a Kompany who will urge and encourage players on? Where is that **** in our team like a Terry? We have no bite no agression. All airy fairy in my view.
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I agree DHSF. I think the officials and the FA realise that they can give these decisions against us because they know we won't kick up much of a fuss. You can see why they were more reluctant when United had Fergie and Keane and they didn't really want those two in their faces after a decision went against them.
 
DHSF said:
Whilst to a point I agree that decisions go against us and of course they have played a role - only weak people constantly bemoan things like referees. In my view its mentality issues - our players are pansies pure and simple. Look at Lamela today, arms int he air all waving about like a pansy. Stand up man the **** up and get over it. We have too many players who when things go even alittle against them they go into their shell, heads drop and just dont recover.

Where is the leader on that pitch? Where is the guy like a Kompany who will urge and encourage players on? Where is that **** in our team like a Terry? We have no bite no agression. All airy fairy in my view.
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Leaders on the pitch? We had them
In the likes of king bale modric and vdv alas they are no longer with us and the club decided the way forward was to not replace them
Properly.
 
Even gallas to an extent. Players who led by example. Now we just buy players who are cheap as chips and thus not up to much at all.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I agree DHSF. I think the officials and the FA realise that they can give these decisions against us because they know we won't kick up much of a fuss. You can see why they were more reluctant when United had Fergie and Keane and they didn't really want those two in their faces after a decision went against them.
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This. Not that I think the referee was particularly unbalanced today (he was pretty bad, but equally bad for both sides imo), but we will never ,ever, ever be serious contenders for anything as long as we stay a team of nice, quiet lads, with our captain Kaboul laughing it up with opposition players like Milner towards the end of a 4-1 defeat and the referee happily awarding things against us because we don't kick up a fuss.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: kick up a goddamn storm, get in the ref's face, crowd him, hassle him, make him question his judgement, criticise him in the post-match press conference, never let him get a moment's peace from the minute he gets assigned a Spurs game to the minute the game ends and he can get on with his reffing career. We will never get things entirely our way unless we do this.

A team of Danny Roses would suit me fine. Snarling, aggressive players who are happy to try and win the game by any means necessary and don't hesitate to stick it to the opposition and the ref if they feel they're being unfairly treated. That's what will ultimately give us a winning, never-say-die mentality. I hope we get that one day.
 
DubaiSpur said:
This. Not that I think the referee was particularly unbalanced today (he was pretty bad, but equally bad for both sides imo), but we will never ,ever, ever be serious contenders for anything as long as we stay a team of nice, quiet lads, with our captain Kaboul laughing it up with opposition players like Milner towards the end of a 4-1 defeat and the referee happily awarding things against us because we don't kick up a fuss.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: kick up a goddamn storm, get in the ref's face, crowd him, hassle him, make him question his judgement, criticise him in the post-match press conference, never let him get a moment's peace from the minute he gets assigned a Spurs game to the minute the game ends and he can get on with his reffing career. We will never get things entirely our way unless we do this.

A team of Danny Roses would suit me fine. Snarling, aggressive players who are happy to try and win the game by any means necessary and don't hesitate to stick it to the opposition and the ref if they feel they're being unfairly treated. That's what will ultimately give us a winning, never-say-die mentality. I hope we get that one day.
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It's the same at every level of football. Going back to when I played 11 a side when I was younger, I played in a very successful side that won leagues and just about every 5 a side tournament going even though we were a nice set of lads with only 1 real tough player in the team who threatened to "break players' legs if they put in another tackle like that". But that's rare, most of the top teams we played could play but also had at least 5 or 6 real nasty players who did all of the dirty/cynical things you need to do sometimes in order to win. I'm sick of being the nice team who claims the moral victory. Give me trophies over that all day.
 
We lack the 'winning mentality', and of course we don't have owners as good as Chelsea and City have that have enabled them to challenge the 'natural big 3' of English football.
 
DHSF said:
Whilst to a point I agree that decisions go against us and of course they have played a role - only weak people constantly bemoan things like referees. In my view its mentality issues - our players are pansies pure and simple. Look at Lamela today, arms int he air all waving about like a pansy. Stand up man the **** up and get over it. We have too many players who when things go even alittle against them they go into their shell, heads drop and just dont recover.

Where is the leader on that pitch? Where is the guy like a Kompany who will urge and encourage players on? Where is that **** in our team like a Terry? We have no bite no agression. All airy fairy in my view.
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Yup!
Mentality, from top to bottom.
Watch Dier turning his back on Aguerros first goal to protect his good looks.
 
In direct response to the original post....

because we're not as good as them.

Didnt see anything that unduly concerned me today. We were well beaten by a vastly superior team yet were still attacking towards the end trying to score. We seem to have the misfortune of continually coming against a City side who hit top gear. Fixture over, move on.
 
DubaiSpur said:
This. Not that I think the referee was particularly unbalanced today (he was pretty bad, but equally bad for both sides imo), but we will never ,ever, ever be serious contenders for anything as long as we stay a team of nice, quiet lads, with our captain Kaboul laughing it up with opposition players like Milner towards the end of a 4-1 defeat and the referee happily awarding things against us because we don't kick up a fuss.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: kick up a goddamn storm, get in the ref's face, crowd him, hassle him, make him question his judgement, criticise him in the post-match press conference, never let him get a moment's peace from the minute he gets assigned a Spurs game to the minute the game ends and he can get on with his reffing career. We will never get things entirely our way unless we do this.

A team of Danny Roses would suit me fine. Snarling, aggressive players who are happy to try and win the game by any means necessary and don't hesitate to stick it to the opposition and the ref if they feel they're being unfairly treated. That's what will ultimately give us a winning, never-say-die mentality. I hope we get that one day.
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Very much agree with all of this (though a team of Danny Roses might be pushing it!). We need to step up and criticise the refs much more when they **** up - and make sure they are reminded of their past mistakes the next time they officiate our games. I would gladly take a fine or three and a game in the stands for Poch if it meant refs get more cautious with their decisions against us.

It's of course very sad that football has come to this, but when other managers and players are allowed to do this time and time again, we should too. Start being meaner, talk some discrete **** about the ref, about how opponent players have dived and cheated in the past, etc. Hopefully one day these refereeing mistakes will dry up.

That said, I also very much agree with those who are critical of the drive and determination of our players. We don't have any leaders out there, bar perhaps Lloris. We desperately need one or two players who will never give up and always drive teammates onwards. A Keane or a Vieira, a Terry (spit) or a Kompani.
 
A good team wins in spite of the referees performance.

A bad team loses but blames the ref. If the manger blames the ref then it gives an excuse to players not to work on their inability to win.
 
GPRD81 said:
In direct response to the original post....

because we're not as good as them.

Didnt see anything that unduly concerned me today. We were well beaten by a vastly superior team yet were still attacking towards the end trying to score. We seem to have the misfortune of continually coming against a City side who hit top gear. Fixture over, move on.
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Yep.

However I suspect it's more than "city in top gear", we offer a style of play which makes them look good.
 
We should have played today more like the Arsenal game imo. Yes, we did well going forwards in terms of creating chances, but we allowed far too many to City and much of it was from simple football on their part.

Play more conservatively against the best attacking teams in the league ffs, it's not rocket science. Look to stay in these games and earn a point, instead of pushing high up the pitch and getting our pants pulled down. The way we played Arsenal away is the way we should approach all these games (infact, wwe could do worse than to play against most teams in a similar fashion).
 
the dza said:
We should have played today more like the Arsenal game imo. Yes, we did well going forwards in terms of creating chances, but we allowed far too many to City and much of it was from simple football on their part.

Play more conservatively against the best attacking teams in the league ffs, it's not rocket science. Look to stay in these games and earn a point, instead of pushing high up the pitch and getting our pants pulled down. The way we played Arsenal away is the way we should approach all these games (infact, wwe could do worse than to play against most teams in a similar fashion).
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Good post.
 
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