I
indianspur
Guest
i think Jimmy went to A Madrid from Leeds and then Chelsea brought him back to English football
brilliant striker and such hunger for scoring goals.
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what has happened to the transfer section?
- Thread starter Danishfurniturelover
- Start date
i think Jimmy went to A Madrid from Leeds and then Chelsea brought him back to English football
brilliant striker and such hunger for scoring goals.
Bent is just a finisher, he can't pass, he can't hold the ball up, he's not great at winning the ball in the air and keeping it, he usually has the lowest touches of any player per match than anyone other player in the league.
No, his strike rate is good enough but the rest of him is not. Look at who you're comparing him to there.
Welbeck - Doesn't score goals. 1 League goal in 10 apps, Evans, Evra and Rafael beat that, as does Kagawa. Fletcher, Vidic, Nani, Anderson, Powell, Buttner and Scholes equal it.
Hernandez - This is a fairer comparison because they're both finishers rather than anything else. There is more to Hernandez's game than Bent's, but it's close enough to look at them both as finishers. Hernandez is the better finisher and isn't first choice.
Defoe - There's an argument that Defoe isn't top 5 quality, but this is a decent comparison too. Defoe does offer far more than Bent, but Bent is taller and faster. This season is rare because Defoe isn't usually first choice for us.
Adebayor - There's no comparison here. Ade does 20 things, Bent does about 3.
Giroud - Hasn't even had a full season in the PL yet, so it's hard to judge. To be honest, when Arsenal play hoofball and forget how to play the ball on the ground to their team mates, they don't hoof the ball to Giroud, so I'm not sure what kind of target man he'd make. I'm not even sure how good he is at passing, even though Arsenal don't usually sign people that can't pass. He doesn't strike me as a pure finisher though (probably due to his early inability to finish), so I'm sure there's something more to his game, but at the end of the season I might have a better idea. For the first few games he was labelled a flop anyway. He has only started scoring recently.
Dzeko - This guy isn't a pure finisher, if he was a pure finisher then he'd be a waste of 30 mil or so... He probably still is a waste of 30m or so, but City seem to pay twice what most players are worth. He is 3rd choice though.
In conclusion if there is a place for Bent in top 5 teams, it's as a sub to come on and try to score a goal in the last 20 minutes of games when his team is losing. There's no way any of these teams would play him in a big game out of choice rather than desperation.
So on the flip side, surely a lower league team would love a player like Bent?
Villa seem to take him off at half time if he starts at all, they seem to get worse results when he plays, they have a better striker. Villa are the worst side in the league.
Bent belongs to a collection of footballers that focus on doing one thing but really lacks all round skills to make them viable in a good team. There is a formula to find out if Bent is worth playing, it's basically the Sunderland scenario. If a team has no one to score goals, but creates a couple of chances they need a good finisher, but they can only go with Bent if they don't want their striker to offer anything else on the ball, he can't be relied upon to hold the ball up or create anything. If the team wants to dominate possession they can't have him either. So he can fit into a side that is decent at defending.
Goalkeepers with no feet, defenders that can't pass, strikers that only finish.. They are all too limited to really shine. Each would be a huge weakness for a team and as such tend to live on sub benches or are taken on by clubs that aren't huge and need a good shotstopper, someone good at defending or someone that scores goals.
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I completely agree with this.
The only thing I will say in Benteke's defence is that it's a bit early to judge him. His first season in the league, he is young and he plays for a really brick team. Early in the season he couldn't control the ball, shoot or do much of anything. Lately he has improved, whether it's just a case of his early form was brick and won't come back or whether he might be prone to relapses is hard to say for sure.
He might go on to play for a better club, score 20 goals in the league and prove me wrong, but I don't see how he can possibly be worth it. We're not being offered him for free, if Villa go down and they have a fire sale, then we might be able to get him cheaply. He'd be a good shout for a sub if he costs a few mil, if he costs 20m we can't just sit him on the bench.
He's definitely better than Villa but I'm not sure he's Champions League.
I'm not sure he can hold the ball up well enough for us. Looking at his stats, he seems to foul someone once for every 2 shots he takes.
There's no way he's good enough to start for us.
Both of those guys can't stay onside to save their lives though, they actually make Defoe and Ade look good when it comes to that.
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TLDR: Take away Bent's goals and he's brick. A player like that traditionally does not play for a top team.
I'd rather we didn't buy Benteke, unless he's very very very cheap and willing to sit on the bench.
No, his strike rate is good enough but the rest of him is not. Look at who you're comparing him to there.
Welbeck - Doesn't score goals. 1 League goal in 10 apps, Evans, Evra and Rafael beat that, as does Kagawa. Fletcher, Vidic, Nani, Anderson, Powell, Buttner and Scholes equal it.
Hernandez - This is a fairer comparison because they're both finishers rather than anything else. There is more to Hernandez's game than Bent's, but it's close enough to look at them both as finishers. Hernandez is the better finisher and isn't first choice.
Defoe - There's an argument that Defoe isn't top 5 quality, but this is a decent comparison too. Defoe does offer far more than Bent, but Bent is taller and faster. This season is rare because Defoe isn't usually first choice for us.
Adebayor - There's no comparison here. Ade does 20 things, Bent does about 3.
Giroud - Hasn't even had a full season in the PL yet, so it's hard to judge. To be honest, when Arsenal play hoofball and forget how to play the ball on the ground to their team mates, they don't hoof the ball to Giroud, so I'm not sure what kind of target man he'd make. I'm not even sure how good he is at passing, even though Arsenal don't usually sign people that can't pass. He doesn't strike me as a pure finisher though (probably due to his early inability to finish), so I'm sure there's something more to his game, but at the end of the season I might have a better idea. For the first few games he was labelled a flop anyway. He has only started scoring recently.
Dzeko - This guy isn't a pure finisher, if he was a pure finisher then he'd be a waste of 30 mil or so... He probably still is a waste of 30m or so, but City seem to pay twice what most players are worth. He is 3rd choice though.
In conclusion if there is a place for Bent in top 5 teams, it's as a sub to come on and try to score a goal in the last 20 minutes of games when his team is losing. There's no way any of these teams would play him in a big game out of choice rather than desperation.
So on the flip side, surely a lower league team would love a player like Bent?
Villa seem to take him off at half time if he starts at all, they seem to get worse results when he plays, they have a better striker. Villa are the worst side in the league.
Bent belongs to a collection of footballers that focus on doing one thing but really lacks all round skills to make them viable in a good team. There is a formula to find out if Bent is worth playing, it's basically the Sunderland scenario. If a team has no one to score goals, but creates a couple of chances they need a good finisher, but they can only go with Bent if they don't want their striker to offer anything else on the ball, he can't be relied upon to hold the ball up or create anything. If the team wants to dominate possession they can't have him either. So he can fit into a side that is decent at defending.
Goalkeepers with no feet, defenders that can't pass, strikers that only finish.. They are all too limited to really shine. Each would be a huge weakness for a team and as such tend to live on sub benches or are taken on by clubs that aren't huge and need a good shotstopper, someone good at defending or someone that scores goals.
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I completely agree with this.
The only thing I will say in Benteke's defence is that it's a bit early to judge him. His first season in the league, he is young and he plays for a really brick team. Early in the season he couldn't control the ball, shoot or do much of anything. Lately he has improved, whether it's just a case of his early form was brick and won't come back or whether he might be prone to relapses is hard to say for sure.
He might go on to play for a better club, score 20 goals in the league and prove me wrong, but I don't see how he can possibly be worth it. We're not being offered him for free, if Villa go down and they have a fire sale, then we might be able to get him cheaply. He'd be a good shout for a sub if he costs a few mil, if he costs 20m we can't just sit him on the bench.
He's definitely better than Villa but I'm not sure he's Champions League.
I'm not sure he can hold the ball up well enough for us. Looking at his stats, he seems to foul someone once for every 2 shots he takes.
There's no way he's good enough to start for us.
Both of those guys can't stay onside to save their lives though, they actually make Defoe and Ade look good when it comes to that.
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TLDR: Take away Bent's goals and he's brick. A player like that traditionally does not play for a top team.
I'd rather we didn't buy Benteke, unless he's very very very cheap and willing to sit on the bench.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Interesting hearing that Mario Gomez has lost his place at Bayern this season. Might be an option for us in the summer if that's still the case?
He's quite Falcao-like in style.
He's quite Falcao-like in style.
Falcao is more than a poacher... I think Gomez is a waste of space even with his goals, he seemed to miss more sitters than he had shots on target whenever I watched him last season. (Even the goals he did score, his goal against Real Madrid in Germany was not due to technical ability, he seemed more likely to score with his arse than his foot.)
It's not about grafting, Defoe can do that.
Falcao can hold the ball up, he can win things in the air, he can stretch defences or come short and play passes with his back to goal. At Atletico he was instructed to not chase the ball around or spend too much time in wide areas.
Gomez I'm not even going to go into, in theory he should be a good player but my descriptions of him have never been favorable. To be fair, I haven't watched him nearly enough to compare his ability to hold the ball up with PL players, but he looks brick. Defoe would have scored more goals last season for Bayern than Gomez judging by every Gomez performance I saw.
My original point was, take away RVP's goals and you get someone that gets a hell of a lot of assists, is good at taking set pieces, someone that passes the ball very well, etc. Take away Crouch's goals and you get someone that'll get plenty of assists, will win aerial balls, etc. Take away Messi's goals and what you have left is basically Iniesta. Ade, Drogba, etc all perform roles that have responsibilities in addition to goalscoring. I would rather have a Tevez that wasn't allowed to score goals than Bent, all day long, no question. There are plenty of strikers in the world that complete 50 passes a game, Darrent Bent doesn't even have that many touches, not even close.
For the record, that was the "too long, didn't read" point, I generally overstate my points in that section because people don't read the whole post and want a shortened version. It was generally the gist of my post, but the bulk of the post was my point, the end was just brutal simplification. I'd rather strikers that were solid players without having the get out of "I don't remember what he did aside from the 15 seconds he scored a goal".
You see with Higuain that the better finisher between he and Benzema doesn't actually start the big games, Higuain offers a hell of a lot more than Bent too.
Bedfordspurs
Arthur Rowe
Benteke for £15M would be perfect for me. He is raw but looks very much like the type of player we need. A goals corer who batters defenders and can hold the ball up. He is far from the finished article but well worth the gamble
I'd also be after Thomas Ince who would be a bargain for £6M and I'd be after young Shaw at Southampton who. Think will be come a top left back. That's about £30M and for me is a real step in the right direction.
I'd also be after Thomas Ince who would be a bargain for £6M and I'd be after young Shaw at Southampton who. Think will be come a top left back. That's about £30M and for me is a real step in the right direction.
Benteke to Spurs at £15 mill will not happen. I can't make my mind up about him.
I think it's time to say "screw the PL". It's nice to buy players that don't need time to adapt to the league, but Cazorla for £15m, Isco was available for £15m before he signed his new contract, Monreal for £8.7m... The entire Malaga team was effectively for sale at cut price fees and look at what you get for the money. (So cheap that Arsenal bought 2 of them, when Arsenal sell Cazorla they'll make a tidy profit, same with Monreal.)
Look around the PL, every player has a high price unless they have a release clause. I think we should either A: Wait for Malaga to hold another fire sale when Uefa confirm they are banned from the CL... B: Wait for another Spanish club to have to sell players to pay off debt. C: Look at other leagues in general.
Llorente is free for Juve in the summer.
There is value out there.
Look around the PL, every player has a high price unless they have a release clause. I think we should either A: Wait for Malaga to hold another fire sale when Uefa confirm they are banned from the CL... B: Wait for another Spanish club to have to sell players to pay off debt. C: Look at other leagues in general.
Llorente is free for Juve in the summer.
There is value out there.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
Not a surprise that the 3 PL signings we've made under AVB has either had a release clause (Dembele), a year left on their contract and been forcing a move (Dempsey) or been explicitly for sale by the club (Ade).
I think it would take a very special player for us to go out and pay what the selling club is asking for a highly rated player from the Premiership.
Mumorn
Vic Buckingham
Ince looks set to re-sign for Liverpool in the future.
Shaw looks set to sign for Chelsea in the future.
Benteke is an iffy one. I feel we'd all get frustrated with him and fans will turn. He'll pull off moments of magic like a shot from 30 yards that goes in, but he'll miss the close ones and ones you expect a professional premier league striker to score. Still though, he's very young, strong as a fudging ox and Belgian!
greatwhitenorf
Vedran Corluka
Bent is just a finisher, he can't pass, he can't hold the ball up, he's not great at winning the ball in the air and keeping it, he usually has the lowest touches of any player per match than anyone other player in the league.
No, his strike rate is good enough but the rest of him is not. Look at who you're comparing him to there.
Welbeck - Doesn't score goals. 1 League goal in 10 apps, Evans, Evra and Rafael beat that, as does Kagawa. Fletcher, Vidic, Nani, Anderson, Powell, Buttner and Scholes equal it.
Hernandez - This is a fairer comparison because they're both finishers rather than anything else. There is more to Hernandez's game than Bent's, but it's close enough to look at them both as finishers. Hernandez is the better finisher and isn't first choice.
Defoe - There's an argument that Defoe isn't top 5 quality, but this is a decent comparison too. Defoe does offer far more than Bent, but Bent is taller and faster. This season is rare because Defoe isn't usually first choice for us.
Adebayor - There's no comparison here. Ade does 20 things, Bent does about 3.
Giroud - Hasn't even had a full season in the PL yet, so it's hard to judge. To be honest, when Arsenal play hoofball and forget how to play the ball on the ground to their team mates, they don't hoof the ball to Giroud, so I'm not sure what kind of target man he'd make. I'm not even sure how good he is at passing, even though Arsenal don't usually sign people that can't pass. He doesn't strike me as a pure finisher though (probably due to his early inability to finish), so I'm sure there's something more to his game, but at the end of the season I might have a better idea. For the first few games he was labelled a flop anyway. He has only started scoring recently.
Dzeko - This guy isn't a pure finisher, if he was a pure finisher then he'd be a waste of 30 mil or so... He probably still is a waste of 30m or so, but City seem to pay twice what most players are worth. He is 3rd choice though.
In conclusion if there is a place for Bent in top 5 teams, it's as a sub to come on and try to score a goal in the last 20 minutes of games when his team is losing. There's no way any of these teams would play him in a big game out of choice rather than desperation.
So on the flip side, surely a lower league team would love a player like Bent?
Villa seem to take him off at half time if he starts at all, they seem to get worse results when he plays, they have a better striker. Villa are the worst side in the league.
Bent belongs to a collection of footballers that focus on doing one thing but really lacks all round skills to make them viable in a good team. There is a formula to find out if Bent is worth playing, it's basically the Sunderland scenario. If a team has no one to score goals, but creates a couple of chances they need a good finisher, but they can only go with Bent if they don't want their striker to offer anything else on the ball, he can't be relied upon to hold the ball up or create anything. If the team wants to dominate possession they can't have him either. So he can fit into a side that is decent at defending.
Goalkeepers with no feet, defenders that can't pass, strikers that only finish.. They are all too limited to really shine. Each would be a huge weakness for a team and as such tend to live on sub benches or are taken on by clubs that aren't huge and need a good shotstopper, someone good at defending or someone that scores goals.
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I completely agree with this.
The only thing I will say in Benteke's defence is that it's a bit early to judge him. His first season in the league, he is young and he plays for a really brick team. Early in the season he couldn't control the ball, shoot or do much of anything. Lately he has improved, whether it's just a case of his early form was brick and won't come back or whether he might be prone to relapses is hard to say for sure.
He might go on to play for a better club, score 20 goals in the league and prove me wrong, but I don't see how he can possibly be worth it. We're not being offered him for free, if Villa go down and they have a fire sale, then we might be able to get him cheaply. He'd be a good shout for a sub if he costs a few mil, if he costs 20m we can't just sit him on the bench.
He's definitely better than Villa but I'm not sure he's Champions League.
I'm not sure he can hold the ball up well enough for us. Looking at his stats, he seems to foul someone once for every 2 shots he takes.
There's no way he's good enough to start for us.
Both of those guys can't stay onside to save their lives though, they actually make Defoe and Ade look good when it comes to that.
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TLDR: Take away Bent's goals and he's brick. A player like that traditionally does not play for a top team.
I'd rather we didn't buy Benteke, unless he's very very very cheap and willing to sit on the bench.
Fuego, some folk on here have chastised you for such lengthy posts. Not sure if they're all in complete seriousness. But I enjoy your posts. Do carry on.
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
I'd much prefer Lukaku to Benteke
Have to agree with this, but can't see it happening.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
Benteke reminds me of Kenwyne Jones when he first emerged.
Fuego, will try and keep this brief - I think the conversation might have shifted off its original topic somewhere down the line - whether Bent is good enough for the Top PL sides
Subsequently, I listed number of striker who currently play (and often start!) for these very sides and made a comparison to him.
You then went off listing why Bent is not a specific kind of striker (grafter) compared to a 'poacher' for example, etc. - something which I've never argued against.
Personally, I believe he's good at what he does and if players such as Welbeck, Defoe, Sturridge, Borini, Giroud, Podlski, Hernandez, etc. all have place (along with a starting one more often than not) in such teams, then Bent would be more than able to hold his own. He does not have to be this mythical, all-round superior, false-9, target man hard-worker, extraordinaire .
As for your Gomez comment - similar ones have surfaced numerous times over the last couple of years, much to my surprise - he managed 80 goals for Bayern past 2 seasons (current one he was out injured then struggled to displace Mandzukic who's been in imperious form) - and if the same return was achieved in the PL (any team) he'd be lauded as the very best 10-15 players in the world, and rightly so, imv. Within our context - I couldn't care less if he's a grafter - banging 30-40 goals / season, I sincerely doubt many fans would, including yourself, I'd imagine. He's an excellent poacher and finisher and someone who has been terribly underrated for most of his career.
Subsequently, I listed number of striker who currently play (and often start!) for these very sides and made a comparison to him.
You then went off listing why Bent is not a specific kind of striker (grafter) compared to a 'poacher' for example, etc. - something which I've never argued against.
Personally, I believe he's good at what he does and if players such as Welbeck, Defoe, Sturridge, Borini, Giroud, Podlski, Hernandez, etc. all have place (along with a starting one more often than not) in such teams, then Bent would be more than able to hold his own. He does not have to be this mythical, all-round superior, false-9, target man hard-worker, extraordinaire .
As for your Gomez comment - similar ones have surfaced numerous times over the last couple of years, much to my surprise - he managed 80 goals for Bayern past 2 seasons (current one he was out injured then struggled to displace Mandzukic who's been in imperious form) - and if the same return was achieved in the PL (any team) he'd be lauded as the very best 10-15 players in the world, and rightly so, imv. Within our context - I couldn't care less if he's a grafter - banging 30-40 goals / season, I sincerely doubt many fans would, including yourself, I'd imagine. He's an excellent poacher and finisher and someone who has been terribly underrated for most of his career.
Yes, but you listed Welbeck first when you compared Bent to other strikers that play for PL teams. My point was simply that Welbeck doesn't score goals (at least, he doesn't score as many as Evra, which effectively means he doesn't score goals). My entire point is that Bent is only ever in teams to score goals, Welbeck is the opposite, he plays despite being awful at scoring goals. He may technically play in the same position, but it's like comparing Ronaldo to Milner. They both technically play in the same position only they are nothing like the same type of player.
You listed two Liverpool players there, I don't count them as a top team. Bent would do well at Liverpool. If Rodgers would be happy to sacrifice 10% possession per game and carry a player that cannot pass the ball, Bent would get 20 league goals per season if he played every game. He's basically Sturridge with less all round game, a taller Defoe that is even more single minded and that will help the team less.
Defoe, Hernandez and other people comparable to Bent are better than Bent at what he does, but even those two shouldn't be starters in a top team. Defoe had a few things fall for him, he worked on the parts of his game that weren't shooting and to the surprise of most, he seemed to get the shout to be our lone striker instead of Ade.
I think it's just a case of whether United would prefer him to Hernandez as super sub and so on. Generally I don't think managers would. Defoe wasn't picked up by bigger clubs than us, we sold him to Portsmouth. Top clubs generally want more from their strikers. That was my point. I'm quite happy to agree that Darren Bent scores goals and that he is capable of being one of the league's top scorers, but I look at Welbeck, who is incapable of being one of the league's top scorers and I see he plays more than Hernandez, that leads me to believe that Bent wouldn't play more than someone that barely scores any goals and that requires an insane amount of chances to score.
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Yeah, I knew his stats when I watched him last season, I just couldn't understand why I seemed to jynx him whenever I watched him. Maybe I didn't watch him against weaker teams enough. He might have that Walcott style ability to score a hat trick in 4-0 wins or maybe I just catch him at the wrong times. My point was simply that Defoe would have scored way more goals than him in the games of his that I watched, if every match in the season went like that, Defoe would score more goals. Logic tells me that I'm missing a piece of the puzzle, but without watching him for a dozen games it's hard to say what was up. Maybe I just saw him in his worst form and the rest of the season he was in great form. (Rooney goes through a phase when he has the finishing ability of Heskey every 18 months, so I might have caught Gomez's version of that for a few games.)
I decided to double check how accurate his shots were just now. Apparently in the previous two seasons he had around 50% accuracy in the league, he had less than that the year before, but recently his shooting hasn't been as awful as it looked. I think it was just a case of me watching half a dozen games where he missed sitters rather than watching games where he was getting most of his shots on target.
I still can't say I'd trust him to score a sitter if my life depended on it, but at least the stats suggest he doesn't just randomly kick/shin/thigh the ball in a random direction and hope for the best.
I
indianspur
Guest
Gomez??? :lol: transfer fee? salary??
its a shame we didnt take a punt on Mandzukic a few years ago
africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
you are basically saying falcao is brick then
how is gomez like falcao in playing style? unless you're talking about simply getting into goal scoring positions...or trying to anyway
If Gomez is even remotely availabe we should be seriosuly considering it.
Doubt he'd leave Bayern's massive wages though
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