first time i have been at a game when it was used and yes it was crap - it certainly felt different from the ref going to the lino, seemed to be the general consensus around me.
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VAR: Sponsored by Chelsea
- Thread starter Gutter Boy
- Start date
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
And yet - do you think it took any longer?
I suspect theres a perception thing here, rather than a genuine difference in "flow".
And I think there are things that can be done to help, IE - communication.
Im pleased to see things have moved on from the WC with all that nonsense of refs running over to a monitor and that, so Im hopeful of continued improvement.
parklane1
Vic Buckingham
It is crap for the fans watching at the game, no one really knows what is going on and i have yet to hear anyone at the games i have been to where it was used say any different.
most of the time the ref will blow the whistle and thats it - you have used an example of on of the longest times the decision can take as the comparison, if every major decision the ref made ended up with a 2 minute delay I would also be moaning about that... it does not.
monkeybarry
Ian Walker
Much like a ref talking to a lino then?
Its prudent to trial it in a few different ways and asses the overall results rather than overreacting to a singular positive/negstneg outcome
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
93 seconds, on a penalty decision.
A penalty decision, not a throw in. How often are they simply waved away? Especially when there is something to contest in it like the offside?
And, if VAR were used on every decision you would have a point. Tuesday night it stopped the game once to my recollection, that one time we got a penalty we otherwise wouldnt have. The other VAR calls were made while the game was ongoing wasnt it?
In a post VAR world, most of the time the ref will blow the whistle and thats it. Its only those decisions that require a bit of analysis that will get delayed. The very same decisions that will most often be delayed anyway. Thats the point.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
Alot of what I read is "VAR just needs fine tuning" followed by "It needs to be sped up to not bore the fan, no it needs to be slowed to get decisions right" "The lino should flag, no they should not let them keep the flags down" which just proves how many teething problems there are still with it, the same which came from the WC and before so is it really ready to roll out in the Premiership game in game out with doubts hanging over it? I still have questions on that,
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
I think it is much improved on the WC, with much improvement to go.
There are loads of penalties that the ref does not go over to the linesman - was the 90 seconds for the decision to be made including the arguments after, if not the 90 seconds is on top of all the contesting not instead of it.
It was crap in the stadium, it doesn't stop arguments it moves them later, it doesn't stop people feeling conned it exaggerates it. That's the point.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
VAR is here to give correct results which is what most people will argue but I agree with your points. Players and managers spend time arguing the toss still and the break in play gives that more time to build up because they are stood around waiting for the refs decision so their anger builds momentum where as in a normal situation the ref gives pen and game resumes almost imediately giving no time for the drawn out hissy fits. There is also an element for me where more technology has given the teams more ammo to moan which was shown with the way Chelsea countered with their footage, I dont remember a time previously when clubs in such a quick time have produced evidence to undermine the ref?
As you say this has done nothing to stop the debate or people feeling conned. I am still not convince on it at all, I would prefer us to enpower the refs with the their decision is final and have harsher penalties in place for undermining, cheating and abuse of the offciail.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
I didnt really note any arguments. The ref signalled it was a VAR call, the call came down, the game carried on. No drama.
I can completely understand that those in the stands were all wondering what the hell was going on, and I expect that 93 seconds felt like a lot longer, hence your reaction.
In actuality, for a call that is contestable, I really dont think the timing is any different. Which is why I argue against the idea it ruins the flow of the game.
These VAR stoppages are only happening when they have to, not continuously through the game. They happen mostly in situations there is a natural break anyway.
I dont see what there is to feel conned about. Even without the screens showing the process (which I absolutely think they should), you know its a VAR call and that a decision is being made that is being made in a way that virtually guarantees the right result.
As opposed to a person spotting something from 25 yards, seeing it once in real time, while having to mind 3 other things at the time - trying to make a call, and then dealing with the fall out whichever way he goes.
I know which I would feel more conned by, thats for sure.
"I dont see what there is to feel conned about. Even without the screens showing the process (which I absolutely think they should), you know its a VAR call and that a decision is being made that is being made in a way that virtually guarantees the right result."
The Chelsea fans now feel conned - they are convinced it was offside and now its a conspiracy where you can understand human error in real time. This will be the case for 70% of the VAR decisions that rely on interpretation over black and white (I pulled that number out of the air but think its reasonable).
The Chelsea fans now feel conned - they are convinced it was offside and now its a conspiracy where you can understand human error in real time. This will be the case for 70% of the VAR decisions that rely on interpretation over black and white (I pulled that number out of the air but think its reasonable).
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
Made worse with the counter production of footage to try and undermine the system.
Now I know they could have done the same on a ref error but the argument back was "he did not have the benefit of technology" that can't be said now
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
A) Chelsea fans are fudging macarons.
B) Anyone can see the difference in their and the VAR screens - notably theirs was a few frames late.
C) If it really is THAT close, what is there to feel conned about? At the very best it still only "debatable" rather than anything remotely resembling conspiracy.
D) If I see a decision given against that I am convinced is in error Im angry, particularly as there are tools to prevent it. If I see a decision like that via VAR, where Im convinced it was millimetres in my favour - I can still entirely see why it wasnt given. Guess what? Not angry.
E) Its worth noting again - these instances you are talking about will inevitably been in the vast, vast minority.
Kandi1977
Terry Dyson
Or West Brom/Burnley on every dead ball situation. Takes at least a minute.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
Let make a bet here, i bet most fan base in English football and their managers react the opposite in the future based on that example. Starting with Sarri.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Im not sure I see your point entirely, to be honest, but will say this.
English football fans need to grow the fudge up, basically. Look at the like of Cricket and Rugby, quite frankly its an embarrassment football fans carry on as they do still (speaking in general, of course, I am sure there are countless examples of good behaviour).
Also, Chelsea are performing a pantomime. If it gets them what they want, theyll do it again and so will everyone else. If they dont itll die off as it well should.
Finally, even with their supposed evidence, it is still an extremely marginal call. People are talking about it as a slam dunk wrong decision, it is anything but.