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Trans stuff

Mikey10 said:
Have you given any thought to how the men in the changing room might feel - or is that irrelevant? What about men who identify as women using women’s facilities - should we just worry about how they feel?
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Of course all feelings should be taken into account including men & women but you are not considering trans feelings

I never said trans should use women's changing rooms. My friend who played cricket used the disabled toilet room for I person. Or you could have multisex change rooms there are solutions that could be figured out

If we say to trans people you can only play men's football where do they go you are basically saying you can't play football is that fair
 
kb 1984 said:
Of course all feelings should be taken into account including men & women but you are not considering trans feelings

I never said trans should use women's changing rooms. My friend who played cricket used the disabled toilet room for I person. Or you could have multisex change rooms there are solutions that could be figured out

If we say to trans people you can only play men's football where do they go you are basically saying you can't play football is that fair
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Did you just contradict yourself there?
It's not about what you identify as, it's about matching up physical abilities.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Problem is they are quite rare. Less than 1/1000 people. So you probably dont have enough 18-35 age range in a town to make a football team, even if everyone wanted to play
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And before anyone jumps up and down, I think thats the point here. As harsh as it may seem on the 1/1000 who are marginalised, its alot of heavy lifting with that number to basically say to all the women "deal with it". Does the rulebook get torn up for such low numbers, I don't know the answer but there has to be some answer otherwise, as I said, it becomes bedlam.
 
Grays_1890 said:
And before anyone jumps up and down, I think thats the point here. As harsh as it may seem on the 1/1000 who are marginalised, its alot of heavy lifting with that number to basically say to all the women "deal with it". Does the rulebook get torn up for such low numbers, I don't know the answer but there has to be some answer otherwise, as I said, it becomes bedlam
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I agree no one wants bedlam but the fa haven't helped themselves buy just banning trans people.
I know it might not work but why doesn't the fa come out & say we are interested in setting up a gay & trans league big or small & see if there is any interest.
 
kb 1984 said:
I agree no one wants bedlam but the fa haven't helped themselves buy just banning trans people.
I know it might not work but why doesn't the fa come out & say we are interested in setting up a gay & trans league big or small & see if there is any interest.
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I suppose thats the next stage in all honesty

I think in fairness the trans community have had a long period leading the debate on the subject so there was always going to be a period of almost "right of reply"

Its a deeply intricate conversation and one where I doubt there is a fits all answer. Looking at it from a Psychological angle and the data of things such as post transition regret and high numbers in suicides on those that have, maybe in some twist of fate, these decisions by sports may create a pause for thought for those wishing to transition, but thats a much deeper conversation
 
Baleforce said:
But that’s what’s happening, these women now can’t compete at all, the FA have told them they are no longer welcome to play.
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I would agree the governing bodies need to act quickly and ensure trans people can compete. But the priority has to be safety of women and the fairness of the sport so I think they have made the correct decision in this instance.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I would agree the governing bodies need to act quickly and ensure trans people can compete. But the priority has to be safety of women and the fairness of the sport so I think they have made the correct decision in this instance.
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That would have to be judged on a case by case basis though right, you can’t assume all Trans women are a certain height or weight.
 
kb 1984 said:
That's the second time I have heard that argument. I don't think anyone should be slaughtered or shouted down all points of view should be listened to. I certainly haven't shouted anyone down.

I don't imagine many famous or not so famous people with a platform & can pretty much say whatever they want have to worry about being who they are on a daily basis. Just imagine someone shouting abuse at you because you are walking down the street just being you

I come at this from a certain point of view knowing 2 trans women neither are on social media neither would shout anyone down but they both get abuse just walking down the street. Neither can play the sport they love cricket/ tennis but they have accepted they won't be able to play there sport. They both hope it changes one day but it is what it is there words not mine. They aren't going to protest because the both understand a woman's point of view they just wish people would listen to there point of view now & again

I have known one of them for 15 years nicest woman you'll ever meet but she has to pretend she is a guy everyday because she knows she would be sacked because her bosses ain't afraid to say what they think about gays imagine a trans person. I have told her to leave but she says I love my job & besides the next job will be the same. How sad that she's probably right
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You seem to be mixing points. Not sure anyone has suggested they should be shouted at or should worry about who they are.

Nobody has said they shouldn't be able to play sports. Just that when it comes to competitive professional sports they have a very unfair advantage and in some cases it can be very dangerous.

Nobody is saying it is easy for a person suffering from gender dysphoria. It must be horrible.

What we are saying is there has to be a balance. The needs of the person suffering from a mental condition and the rest of society. It has to be fair.
 
kb 1984 said:
So you would be happy for someone who has transitioned or who identifies as a woman to enter mens changing rooms. Or should they have separate changing rooms & make them feel even more isolated
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For me i couldn't give a brick. Womens feelings have to be taken into account.

If you had a young daughter would you be comfortable with her changing in front of a grown man that had transitioned? At the swimming pool etc...

Just an aside. 2/3rds of trans in prison are there for sexual offences.
 
Lilbaz said:
For me i couldn't give a brick. Womens feelings have to be taken into account.

If you had a young daughter would you be comfortable with her changing in front of a grown man that had transitioned? At the swimming pool etc...

Just an aside. 2/3rds of trans in prison are there for sexual offences.
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Of course womens feelings should be taken into account wouldn't suggest otherwise. Nothing should be forced on anyone but a sensible conversation to try & find middle ground is in everybody's best intrest

After me & my ex split my kids Wanted to go to the local pool I said no because either my 12 year old daughter has to go in with me & my son or I have to let her go in alone not a chance of that happening. It wasn't because of trans people it didn't cross my mind. What I was concerned about was those low life scum bags getting off looking at my son & daughter you no those straight guys that use the pool.The trans issue for pools could easily be fixed by saying every Tuesday between 7pm & closing is for trans only making sure everybody is well informed when they arrive that at 7pm the pool closes

i don't know how many trans people are in prison what I do no is there are a lot more straight men in prison for sexual offences against women & children. Lucky I am not in charge because trans or straight none of them would be released
 
kb 1984 said:
Of course womens feelings should be taken into account wouldn't suggest otherwise. Nothing should be forced on anyone but a sensible conversation to try & find middle ground is in everybody's best intrest

After me & my ex split my kids Wanted to go to the local pool I said no because either my 12 year old daughter has to go in with me & my son or I have to let her go in alone not a chance of that happening. It wasn't because of trans people it didn't cross my mind. What I was concerned about was those low life scum bags getting off looking at my son & daughter you no those straight guys that use the pool.The trans issue for pools could easily be fixed by saying every Tuesday between 7pm & closing is for trans only making sure everybody is well informed when they arrive that at 7pm the pool closes

i don't know how many trans people are in prison what I do no is there are a lot more straight men in prison for sexual offences against women & children. Lucky I am not in charge because trans or straight none of them would be released
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There are lots of straight men in prison for sexual offences. But they get put in mens prisons not womens.

The whole point is should trans be treated as women? In sports, in changing rooms, in prisons, refuges, etc... is that fair on women?

Outside of that most people don't care.
 
Lilbaz said:
There are lots of straight men in prison for sexual offences. But they get put in mens prisons not womens.

The whole point is should trans be treated as women? In sports, in changing rooms, in prisons, refuges, etc... is that fair on women?

Outside of that most people don't care.
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Here in Oz men go to prison based on there gender at birth most choose to then go into protective custody basically no one can get near them.

I think the best way to fix the issues is for everyone to stop shouting at each other & ignoring different points of view. women must be heard but so should others with skin in the game but ultimately if women are not comfortable with it then that's were it ends. I would never want the women in my life to feel uncomfortable but I would want them to be open to a discussion
 
kb 1984 said:
Here in Oz men go to prison based on there gender at birth most choose to then go into protective custody basically no one can get near them.

I think the best way to fix the issues is for everyone to stop shouting at each other & ignoring different points of view. women must be heard but so should others with skin in the game but ultimately if women are not comfortable with it then that's were it ends. I would never want the women in my life to feel uncomfortable but I would want them to be open to a discussion
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Or has what's happened in the uk. Women have taken the government to court to get a decision.
 
Lilbaz said:
Or has what's happened in the uk. Women have taken the government to court to get a decision.
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Yes but that is a huge risk get a judge or judge's that interprets the law differently & the women loose then what. What stops the government from appealing or even changing the law so the courts don't have a choice but to see in there favour governments do it all the time. Dialogue or mediation is a much better option
 
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