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Trans stuff

The trouble is, it is such a broad term nowadays and everyone has their own definition or idea of what it means. I think the bolded part of your post is what it originally meant and honestly I believe most right minded people are on board with those values. Again it’s not something that is easy to sum up on football forum but I’ll give it a go (or at least give my thoughts on what it means and why it is such a hot topic). Whilst I don’t agree with Marky’s views in his original post and often find myself disagreeing with his political views in general, I do understand where he’s coming from in certain situations and I realise how woke culture can be a bit of an eye roll to some people. There’s people who are woke in the sense that you mean, being alert to social issues for example which is something I’d like to describe myself as. But there is a particular type of woke person that is very irritating; the type of person who judges everyone (alive or dead) by today’s standards. It’s ludicrous to hold people like Abraham Lincoln, George Washington and Winston Churchill to 2023 standards when they lived hundreds of years ago in very different times, less tolerant and progressive times. I don’t see what pulling down their statues and renaming schools that were once named after them does to help people that have been dealt a bad hand in society. Maybe it’s a generational thing, but I blame universities for a large part of it for indulging students with safe spaces, trigger warnings etc and allowing them to shout speakers down and bully people who disagree with them.

Social media hasn’t helped either. Everyone now has a platform so they feel the need to pile on people who they disagree with. I just don’t feel that being super woke and liberal necessarily go hand in hand. Liberalism is about lifting people up who have been cheated or hard done by whereas I feel some woke people are more about virtue signalling and self loathing and scolding everyone, it doesn’t actually help anyone.


I also feel it reduces everything to black and white, with us or against us mentality when in reality life is more complex than that. There isn’t always a right a wrong. Take the Israel-Palestine conflict for example, large portions of the left have decided that Israel are the bad guys and Palestine are the good guys. 32 student groups at Harvard recently blamed Israel for the Hamas attack on October 7th. Like I said before, it’s a difficult issue and I accept Israel doesn’t always cover themselves in glory with how they respond but blaming them for the original attack is preposterous.


It’s no secret that Hollywood and the entertainment industry has always been left leaning but I feel a lot of the content these days has a preachy SJW agenda which I don’t feel was the case 10 years ago and I can see why it irritates people.

To answer your last paragraph, it shouldn’t be classed as woke to want your daughter to be happy and to fight oppression. My personal view is you do that by arguing and persuading whereas I don’t feel that censoring or policing language is that effective. I hope your daughter can one day live in a world that doesn’t discriminate, sadly I don’t think you will ever truly get rid of prejudice but I do also feel things gradually improve as time goes by.

I take a view of let people be people absolutely so things like the original post I think should be either applauded and enjoyed by those it relates to and ignored by those it don't.

Like you when we look at the wider subject then discussion should be welcomed as I don't believe, for example, the safe space debate is as simple as made out. Also like you I don't think its helped with the current social media pile on culture, along with the simplistic idea you are either just all one side or the other (See sick sick sick world)

I recently saw a great debate with Bev Jackson and Kate Harris on the whole subject, in short it was how they pioneered equality in the 60s, 70s for the LQB community but are now seen as bigots and outcast over their discussions around the subject. Again centres on alot of people not listening to whats being said instead picking a point and driving it home to create a divide. Really interesting

I think society has lost its ability to debate, as I say, too many labels, too many seemingly pushing wedges in, social media paying a kings ransom for people to create divide by monetised content and its spilling into society. The loss of ability to communicate along with that culture gave us Trump and Bojo IMO, two huge examples of hate culture and a lack of ability for either side to debate, as much a fault of the far left as the far right IMO
 
The trouble is, it is such a broad term nowadays and everyone has their own definition or idea of what it means. I think the bolded part of your post is what it originally meant and honestly I believe most right minded people are on board with those values. Again it’s not something that is easy to sum up on football forum but I’ll give it a go (or at least give my thoughts on what it means and why it is such a hot topic). Whilst I don’t agree with Marky’s views in his original post and often find myself disagreeing with his political views in general, I do understand where he’s coming from in certain situations and I realise how woke culture can be a bit of an eye roll to some people. There’s people who are woke in the sense that you mean, being alert to social issues for example which is something I’d like to describe myself as. But there is a particular type of woke person that is very irritating; the type of person who judges everyone (alive or dead) by today’s standards. It’s ludicrous to hold people like Abraham Lincoln, George Washington and Winston Churchill to 2023 standards when they lived hundreds of years ago in very different times, less tolerant and progressive times. I don’t see what pulling down their statues and renaming schools that were once named after them does to help people that have been dealt a bad hand in society. Maybe it’s a generational thing, but I blame universities for a large part of it for indulging students with safe spaces, trigger warnings etc and allowing them to shout speakers down and bully people who disagree with them.

Social media hasn’t helped either. Everyone now has a platform so they feel the need to pile on people who they disagree with. I just don’t feel that being super woke and liberal necessarily go hand in hand. Liberalism is about lifting people up who have been cheated or hard done by whereas I feel some woke people are more about virtue signalling and self loathing and scolding everyone, it doesn’t actually help anyone.


I also feel it reduces everything to black and white, with us or against us mentality when in reality life is more complex than that. There isn’t always a right a wrong. Take the Israel-Palestine conflict for example, large portions of the left have decided that Israel are the bad guys and Palestine are the good guys. 32 student groups at Harvard recently blamed Israel for the Hamas attack on October 7th. Like I said before, it’s a difficult issue and I accept Israel doesn’t always cover themselves in glory with how they respond but blaming them for the original attack is preposterous.


It’s no secret that Hollywood and the entertainment industry has always been left leaning but I feel a lot of the content these days has a preachy SJW agenda which I don’t feel was the case 10 years ago and I can see why it irritates people.

To answer your last paragraph, it shouldn’t be classed as woke to want your daughter to be happy and to fight oppression. My personal view is you do that by arguing and persuading whereas I don’t feel that censoring or policing language is that effective. I hope your daughter can one day live in a world that doesn’t discriminate, sadly I don’t think you will ever truly get rid of prejudice but I do also feel things gradually improve as time goes by.
I agree with most of that. I think most people live in the sensible centre & move left or right depending on the issue. Should have said that in my previous post.The issues as I see it is the far right & the far left have taken very issue & decided to fight over it again & again til eventually people switch off. I blame American politics it's so broken & dysfunctional but for some reason politicians around the world want to follow suit.

I wish I could see things improving but for me the discourse is getting worse not better. I really hope I get to see the day when my daughter doesn't have to defend being gay from some thick uninformed prick.
 
I really don't mind it, each to their own.

I'm on a train from shoreham by sea to Brighton and the are 5 different college kids all different parts of the train. I can't work out what they are.

Actually quite like how open people are with regards sexuality around here. Is it trend or is it like covid and all started from dodgy shower gels getting into the blood system or children, changing their neuron pathways in their brain.
I often think trans issues are to my generation what homosexuality was to my parents' generation. I don't necessarily really understand it but it's not for me to understand, it's just for me to accept because it doesn't matter a f**k what someone identifies as any more than it matters to me who they decide to love or sleep with. Each to their own - I don't see it as some massive breakdown of society, people are people and are different.

On a related note, my 8 year old daughter came in last year after discovering how babies were made (her older brother gave her a fairly explicit summary) and decided no boy was ever going to do that to her so she' said she's gay. Now, she's 8 so she probably doesn't really know what she's talking about but I love the fact that she just sees homosexuality as normal as heterosexuality. When she gets older and if she does happen to be gay or identifies as male, I hope she'll be comfortable enough to share that with me.
 
I often think trans issues are to my generation what homosexuality was to my parents' generation. I don't necessarily really understand it but it's not for me to understand, it's just for me to accept because it doesn't matter a f**k what someone identifies as any more than it matters to me who they decide to love or sleep with. Each to their own - I don't see it as some massive breakdown of society, people are people and are different.

On a related note, my 8 year old daughter came in last year after discovering how babies were made (her older brother gave her a fairly explicit summary) and decided no boy was ever going to do that to her so she' said she's gay. Now, she's 8 so she probably doesn't really know what she's talking about but I love the fact that she just sees homosexuality as normal as heterosexuality. When she gets older and if she does happen to be gay or identifies as male, I hope she'll be comfortable enough to share that with me.
Totally agree with that.

I don't think they were trans and I actually don't care if they are. One of the things I love about this town.


But there dress sense is awful, utterly awful.

The bloke in my local CO OP he has black nail polish and he was locking up the other night he had a red coat with a furry collar. Looked a state, walked off with a bird with the tightest arse you ever seen. Wanted to ask her if I could pour custard over it and lick it off. Fcuk it he could join I don't care.

What I do care about is the coat. It was hideous.
 
Totally agree with that.

I don't think they were trans and I actually don't care if they are. One of the things I love about this town.


But there dress sense is awful, utterly awful.

The bloke in my local CO OP he has black nail polish and he was locking up the other night he had a red coat with a furry collar. Looked a state, walked off with a bird with the tightest arse you ever seen. Wanted to ask her if I could pour custard over it and lick it off. Fcuk it he could join I don't care.

What I do care about is the coat. It was hideous.
Ah, if it's a question on fashion, I'm not going to criticise. I usually look like I got dressed in the dark. Until a few years ago, I had no concept of colours that clashed with each other.

At my most fashionable (or least unfashionable), I look like the Spurs shop got sick on me - kinda like Jurgen Klopp but with decent klobber, rather than Liverpool gear, on.
 
Ah, if it's a question on fashion, I'm not going to criticise. I usually look like I got dressed in the dark. Until a few years ago, I had no concept of colours that clashed with each other.

At my most fashionable (or least unfashionable), I look like the Spurs shop got sick on me - kinda like Jurgen Klopp but with decent klobber, rather than Liverpool gear, on.

I have nailed the Larry David look. I love it.
 
I often think trans issues are to my generation what homosexuality was to my parents' generation. I don't necessarily really understand it but it's not for me to understand, it's just for me to accept because it doesn't matter a f**k what someone identifies as any more than it matters to me who they decide to love or sleep with. Each to their own - I don't see it as some massive breakdown of society, people are people and are different.

On a related note, my 8 year old daughter came in last year after discovering how babies were made (her older brother gave her a fairly explicit summary) and decided no boy was ever going to do that to her so she' said she's gay. Now, she's 8 so she probably doesn't really know what she's talking about but I love the fact that she just sees homosexuality as normal as heterosexuality. When she gets older and if she does happen to be gay or identifies as male, I hope she'll be comfortable enough to share that with me.

I think that’s a good analogy. A lot of these changes are very new and change doesn’t happen overnight. Obama wasn’t always for gay rights, now he is. I think it will be the same for trans people. Like I said previously, trans participation in sport is an important debate that needs to be had, calling anyone who doesn’t go along with the trans lobbies “transphobic” really doesn’t help move the debate forward. There’s also the issue of what to do in prisons, hospitals, changing rooms etc.

One thing that I have always found strange is how trans people get lumped in with lesbians, gays, bisexual and asexual or LGBT/LGBTQIA for short. They all get lumped together when the only thing they have in common is they are not straight. I’m neither gay or trans but the two must be very different things.
 
I think that’s a good analogy. A lot of these changes are very new and change doesn’t happen overnight. Obama wasn’t always for gay rights, now he is. I think it will be the same for trans people. Like I said previously, trans participation in sport is an important debate that needs to be had, calling anyone who doesn’t go along with the trans lobbies “transphobic” really doesn’t help move the debate forward. There’s also the issue of what to do in prisons, hospitals, changing rooms etc.

One thing that I have always found strange is how trans people get lumped in with lesbians, gays, bisexual and asexual or LGBT/LGBTQIA for short. They all get lumped together when the only thing they have in common is they are not straight. I’m neither gay or trans but the two must be very different things.

Oh well that's become a really tense subject. The LGB community feel their works been hijacked by the whole trans movement, there is a massive divide at the moment. Huge court case between Mermaids and the LGB alliance about certain issues too. The LGB community feel their mission is to create an even playing field for them in society where they feel being trans or wanting to transition are not always gay so are not exclusively the same. For example there is a massive kink side to dressing up which is enjoyed by heterosexual couples so the LGB community feel its not relevant of helpful to have the initials chucked together. It's obviously more nuanced than that, but that's the crux of it.
 
I have nailed the Larry David look. I love it.
curb-your-enthusiasm-curb.gif
 
Not trans but when I told my daughter I was voting yes for same sex marriage she told me she was gay. My response was a laugh & tell her my love for her was unconditional & she should never hide who she is. Sadly my ex wife response was somewhat different. It's a phase apparently & she'll get over it. My daughter is 27 & has been living with her partner for 2 years. Yep definitely a phase
Did your ex ever get over it?

edit: never mind you answered this later in the thread
 
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Not trans but when I told my daughter I was voting yes for same sex marriage she told me she was gay. My response was a laugh & tell her my love for her was unconditional & she should never hide who she is. Sadly my ex wife response was somewhat different. It's a phase apparently & she'll get over it. My daughter is 27 & has been living with her partner for 2 years. Yep definitely a phase
My mums best friends daughter is gay
she lives with her girlfriend and they have adopted two kids who are cracking
they have brought a fudging huge house together and a camper van for weekends away
they are super happy
But at my mums funeral I did have regale her in the need to get married out have a formal partnership because when I register my mums death it turned out that due to them not being married… he couldnt be named. 50 years and not even a name on a death certificate
so clare and bex are getting married now so they don’t have the same “brick”
Have to say I would have thought the law would be more accommodating now on the kind of thing as we have moved forward on same sex marriages but if your not married you have much less administrative rights
 
My mums best friends daughter is gay
she lives with her girlfriend and they have adopted two kids who are cracking
they have brought a fudging huge house together and a camper van for weekends away
they are super happy
But at my mums funeral I did have regale her in the need to get married out have a formal partnership because when I register my mums death it turned out that due to them not being married… he couldnt be named. 50 years and not even a name on a death certificate
so clare and bex are getting married now so they don’t have the same “brick”
Have to say I would have thought the law would be more accommodating now on the kind of thing as we have moved forward on same sex marriages but if your not married you have much less administrative rights
Sorry to hear of your mum's passing. That is shocking you should be able to be with the love of your life & never have to even think about what happens if one passes away. It must have been horrific especially when your overcome with grief. I am glad you informed Claire & Bex because no one should go through that. This information should be common knowledge

In Oz you can register as being in a defacto relationship after 1 year with births deaths & marriages so legally your covered as if you were married but your not.
 
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Sorry to hear of your mum's passing. That is shocking you should be able to be with the love of your life & never have to even think about what happens if one passes away. It must have been horrific especially when your overcome with grief. I am glad you informed Claire & Bex because no one should go through that. This information should be common knowledge

In Oz you can register as being in a defacto relationship after 1 year with births deaths & marriages so legally your covered as if you were married but your not.
Yeah I though it was the same here ish…
My dad didn’t seem to mind but for me it was a real shock
I’m like “50 years for fudge all”
Hence why I said it to Claire
Get it sorted girls.. we can also have a party 🎉
 
Most people are wary of any change to the status quo (no 2 chord jokes please) if it doesn't benefit them and it take time for accepting it. I have a few gay relatives and wasn't shocked or frightened by the idea but was surprised when I started work and saw a man wearing a brassiere under his shirt, lace gloves and carrying one of those wicker shopping basket and a woman dressed in a mans suit, very unusual in early 60's. I find men over 40 wearing football shirts far more worrying for society.
 
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More the whole sports jacket over jumpers,

Man I'm a cool mother fudger, I fly
Most people are wary of any change to the status quo (no 2 chord jokes please) if it doesn't benefit them and it take time for accepting it. I have a few gay relatives and wasn't shocked or frightened by the idea but was surprised when I started work and saw a man wearing a brassiere under his shirt, lace gloves and carrying one of those wicker shopping basket and a woman dressed in a mans suit, very unusual in early 60's. I find men over 40 wearing football shirts far more worrying for society.

What about cycling shirts and lycra, wish I knew how to upload pictures so you could see what I'm wearing now.

And yes they are bright colours, haha. I'm off to cycle to Chichester, probably catch the train back
 
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