*** Tottenham Hotspur v Woolwich *** OMT

[braineclipse]

Agree. Just a matter of turning these situations into goals now and we'll be flying.

We've scored 2 goals or more in 4 out of our last 5 in all competitions. Granted the opponents in those weren't always all that, Anderlecht x2, Villa and Bournemouth. But considering that part of our problem in the past has been scoring goals against "lesser" opposition it's still pretty good going.

Overall in the league so far this season we've scored 20 goals. Only 4 teams have scored more (Emirates Marketing Project, Arsenal, Leicester and West Ham). Considering that two of those have been on a once in a decade/century hot run of form that's also pretty good going. 20 goals in 12 averages out to 1.67 goals per game, if we keep that up all season that would make our total to 63 for the season. Last season only Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea and Arsenal scored more, though the season before that 5 teams scored 64 or more.

We've done that whilst keeping almost the best defensive record in the league. And whilst Kane has been in a dry spell for part of it, Son (who looked a good goalscorer for us) has been injured and Chadli who got into double figures last season in the league has only gotten 1.

Room for improvement for sure, but we've been scoring at a very acceptable rate so far.

 

[alekaras]

We've scored 2 goals or more in 4 out of our last 5 in all competitions. Granted the opponents in those weren't always all that, Anderlecht x2, Villa and Bournemouth. But considering that part of our problem in the past has been scoring goals against "lesser" opposition it's still pretty good going.

Overall in the league so far this season we've scored 20 goals. Only 4 teams have scored more (Emirates Marketing Project, Arsenal, Leicester and West Ham). Considering that two of those have been on a once in a decade/century hot run of form that's also pretty good going. 20 goals in 12 averages out to 1.67 goals per game, if we keep that up all season that would make our total to 63 for the season. Last season only Emirates Marketing Project, Chel53a and Arsenal scored more, though the season before that 5 teams scored 64 or more.

We've done that whilst keeping almost the best defensive record in the league. And whilst Kane has been in a dry spell for part of it, Son (who looked a good goalscorer for us) has been injured and Chadli who got into double figures last season in the league has only gotten 1.

Room for improvement for sure, but we've been scoring at a very acceptable rate so far.

Although our goal scoring record isn't too shabby, given the opportunities we have created we could easily have had more and they would have been goals that would have made a difference between one point and three points. When I made my comment I was thinking more of the chances we failed to create when winning the ball back. There were several situations in the Scum game where we were one pass away from a gilt-edged scoring opportunity and we seemed to squander that. That is the part of our game that I think we can do better in and that I am pretty sure we will do better in with time. Overall though, it's great to see that a virtually unchanged team has elevated its performances so much from last season to this one. Good times!

 

[alekaras]

Usually a draw at Arsenal is not at all a bad result and we can be proud of that. But when you consider the fact we dominated the match, scored first and conceded a late goal, this is a disappointing result. We played well and after taking the lead, had enough chances to kill the game off. But as usual, we lacked the cutting edge and it cost us all 3 points. We probably would have won this match had Arsenal scored first as we look more comfortable coming from a goal behind rather than defending a lead this season. Disappointly, this is almost a carbon copy of the result there last season, when Chadli scored early in the 2nd half but Arsenal scored a late equalizer in the 74th minute. Well, atleast we can be satisfied with the fact we are unbeaten against Arsenal in 3 league matches and are unbeaten in 11 league matches this season.

Credit to Kane for scoring his 6th goal in 4 matches and total 7 goals for the season. It was a well-taken one-on-one goal which he could have wasted when he was badly out of form earlier in the season. It is great to see him continuing his goal run. Hopefully he can emulate the 31 goals he scored last season or atleast score more than 20 goals this season. Too bad his goal was not enough to help us beat Arsenal. He could have scored at least 2 more goals if he had been more clinical in front of goal. Similiarly, others like Eriksen and Dier should have done better with the goal scoring chances they got. I think we could have won this match if we had gone 2-0 ahead, as Arsenal were struggling badly until their goal. Wish the likes of Eriksen, Dembele or Lamela had managed to score a goal. Disappointingly, we lacked a cutting edge to kill the game off.

Thought our midfield did really well and dominated for most of the match. Credit to Dier, Alli, Dembele and Lamela for not letting Arsenal settle down in midfield. Special mention to Lamela who were hassling all the Arsenal players including the goalie all around the field whenever they get anywhere near the ball. Too bad Lamela couldn't create or score for us as that would have been a fitting tribute for all his hard work. But Lamela was so effective in tackling that Arsenal only scored after he was replaced by Son. He probably would have tackled Ozil from making that cross that resulted in their goal.

Our defence would have had perfect mark if not for the late goal conceded. Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Rose and Walker had almost a perfect match to keep our Arsenal. Too bad about their goal as we could have stopped it. Lloris did well to make a great save early in the second half but he has to take the blame for their goal. He should not have been beaten at his near post like that. Thought he could have come out to collect the cross before it reached the Arsenal player. Other that that, we also had to ride our luck as Arsenal had 2 or 3 to score but wasted. And the goal posts came to our rescue yet again when Arsenal hit it in the 2nd half.

We really should have beaten Arsenal comfortably with all the chances we created. But atleast we managed to get a draw. With us being unbeaten in 11 league matches now, hope we will keep on improve our performances and results to achieve our goals this season.

It's a bit inconsistent to say that our defense would have had a perfect mark were it not for the goal and at the same time say we were lucky. In my opinion, I would mostly agree with the lucky part, as Giroud had three great opportunities to score and squandered them. We have to minimize these types of opportunities by the opposition. In last year's game at the Lane we completely stifled them and they created virtually nothing. That is the kind of performance that I would rate as almost perfect. In Sunday's game we allowed them to create more. Granted, we cannot always perform at that level and it is the Scum, after all, not a League One team. And I don't know how much fatigue from playing 3 in 6 days factored in. But there is still room for some slight improvement.

One thing I can say, however, is that this season I feel so much more confident. In the past I would be constantly on edge when the opposing team had the ball and I also didn't feel we would be able to score. This season it's exactly the opposite. Every game I watched I was calm and sure we would pull through and come out on top. Last season I felt many times we were lucky to get a win. This season I feel we were unlucky not to. Shows a lot about how far this team has come.

 

[glorygloryeze]

It's a bit inconsistent to say that our defense would have had a perfect mark were it not for the goal and at the same time say we were lucky. In my opinion, I would mostly agree with the lucky part, as Giroud had three great opportunities to score and squandered them. We have to minimize these types of opportunities by the opposition. In last year's game at the Lane we completely stifled them and they created virtually nothing. That is the kind of performance that I would rate as almost perfect. In Sunday's game we allowed them to create more. Granted, we cannot always perform at that level and it is the Scum, after all, not a League One team. And I don't know how much fatigue from playing 3 in 6 days factored in. But there is still room for some slight improvement.

One thing I can say, however, is that this season I feel so much more confident. In the past I would be constantly on edge when the opposing team had the ball and I also didn't feel we would be able to score. This season it's exactly the opposite. Every game I watched I was calm and sure we would pull through and come out on top. Last season I felt many times we were lucky to get a win. This season I feel we were unlucky not to. Shows a lot about how far this team has come.

That's a very good point..

 

[braineclipse]

Although our goal scoring record isn't too shabby, given the opportunities we have created we could easily have had more and they would have been goals that would have made a difference between one point and three points. When I made my comment I was thinking more of the chances we failed to create when winning the ball back. There were several situations in the Scum game where we were one pass away from a gilt-edged scoring opportunity and we seemed to squander that. That is the part of our game that I think we can do better in and that I am pretty sure we will do better in with time. Overall though, it's great to see that a virtually unchanged team has elevated its performances so much from last season to this one. Good times!

I agree, but quite a lot of it just coincidental too. Kane reacting slightly quicker to Lamela tackling Cech. The situation when Lamela left Koscielny on his back, but the through ball to Kane didn't work out (not sure if it was mishit or that Kane took his eyes off the ball or a combination of the two). Very fine margins.

 

[metalgear]

You really don't like the man do you.

you really don't like me because you think i dislike the man don't you.
unlike some i look at each game on its own - not affected by any sense of history which really has little or no impact on the game at hand.
i felt we were the much stronger team until the subs.

 

[glorygloryeze]

you really don't like me because you think i dislike the man don't you.
unlike some i look at each game on its own - not affected by any sense of history which really has little or no impact on the game at hand.
i felt we were the much stronger team until the subs.

...the irony being that you clearly do NOT do that when judging our team and then making comparisons to Klopp's Liverpool.

Case in point: Liverpool's 3-1 win at Chelski which you were lauding and also saying "you'd never seen the CBs of Chelski being put on their asses" (conveniently forgetting how Kane, Chadli, Eriksen etc did that on NYD..); then lauding Klopp's Liverpool and their results as though they were/are playing and doing so much more fantastically than us.

Assuming you're NOT a WUM, can you not see the irony of your posts?

 

[parklane1]

you really don't like me because you think i dislike the man don't you.
unlike some i look at each game on its own - not affected by any sense of history which really has little or no impact on the game at hand.
i felt we were the much stronger team until the subs.

Well if your eyes are seeing things others are not I would do something about it.

 

[milo]

you really don't like me because you think i dislike the man don't you.
unlike some i look at each game on its own - not affected by any sense of history which really has little or no impact on the game at hand.
i felt we were the much stronger team until the subs.

I'm sure most people think that they do that. The challenge for you is to make a cogent argument as to why you are right and others are wrong. I haven't seen you make one.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Although our goal scoring record isn't too shabby, given the opportunities we have created we could easily have had more and they would have been goals that would have made a difference between one point and three points. When I made my comment I was thinking more of the chances we failed to create when winning the ball back. There were several situations in the Scum game where we were one pass away from a gilt-edged scoring opportunity and we seemed to squander that. That is the part of our game that I think we can do better in and that I am pretty sure we will do better in with time. Overall though, it's great to see that a virtually unchanged team has elevated its performances so much from last season to this one. Good times!

Agree with this. Yes we've played well this season and everyone is starting to praise us, quote impressive stats etc. But there are 4 teams ahead of us and we have failed to close out a number of games that we either edged or dominated. It is fantastic that we are playing well, all credit to Poch and Levy with astute signings and an evolving style of play. But it is not bad luck that we are 5th. There is more to come from this team.

Against the Scum and Pool we played the occasion rather than stick to our game, at times. 1-0 up and outplaying the Scum away from home, the team weren't sure what to do! Against pool we were caught up in the Klop hysteria and tried to out fight them rather than play our game. Both were tough games, but when Poch says this is a young side, I think he means that they will learn to close these kind of games and show ruthlessness in the future.

We can improve with even better forward movement, Rose and Walker can stretch play better, get around the back more and, like all of the team, make the final ball count more often. Ultimately a mentality and determination needs to develop to win these kinds of game (where we're on top). It will come. We let the Scum back in when they were there for the taking. But the best thing is Poch understands this only too well and you feel confident he can bring this group on.

If we add one attacking player who's in their late 20s and has some leadership drive, in Jan, I think it will helps us massively in the second half of the season.

 

[milo]

Agree with this. Yes we've played well this season and everyone is starting to praise us, quote impressive stats etc. But there are 4 teams ahead of us and we have failed to close out a number of games that we either edged or dominated. It is fantastic that we are playing well, all credit to Poch and Levy with astute signings and an evolving style of play. But it is not bad luck that we are 5th. There is more to come from this team.

Against the Scum and Pool we played the occasion rather than stick to our game, at times. 1-0 up and outplaying the Scum away from home, the team weren't sure what to do! Against pool we were caught up in the Klop hysteria and tried to out fight them rather than play our game. Both were tough games, but when Poch says this is a young side, I think he means that they will learn to close these kind of games and show ruthlessness in the future.

We can improve with even better forward movement, Rose and Walker can stretch play better, get around the back more and, like all of the team, make the final ball count more often. Ultimately a mentality and determination needs to develop to win these kinds of game (where we're on top). It will come. We let the Scum back in when they were there for the taking. But the best thing is Poch understands this only too well and you feel confident he can bring this group on.

If we add one attacking player who's in their late 20s and has some leadership drive, in Jan, I think it will helps us massively in the second half of the season.

I don't think that happened in either game. I think that you are putting a spin on events after they have happened but ignoring the most important factor, that these are tough games to win.

We've proven on NYD and against City earlier this season that we can put expensive sides to the sword. There are further improvements that this side needs to make and one of those is definitely making better use of our chances and periods of the game where we are dominant.

 

[braineclipse]

you really don't like me because you think i dislike the man don't you.
unlike some i look at each game on its own - not affected by any sense of history which really has little or no impact on the game at hand.
i felt we were the much stronger team until the subs.

So we were the much stronger team for 70-ish minutes, could easily have won it and got a draw away against our rivals that would have gone top of the league had they won.

But the only thing that mattered is that we didn't win? It didn't matter that we got the draw? It didn't matter that we were the better team for 70 minutes and deserved to win? Performance doesn't matter?

I can't see how this is looking at the game on it's own.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I don't think that happened in either game. I think that you are putting a spin on events after they have happened but ignoring the most important factor, that these are tough games to win.

We've proven on NYD and against City earlier this season that we can put expensive sides to the sword. There are further improvements that this side needs to make and one of those is definitely making better use of our chances and periods of the game where we are dominant.

Its funny, you've emboldened a sentence quoting me, my next sentence starts "Both were tough games..." Not exactly ignoring that these were tough games then.

By putting the reason for the draws (and not wins) on the oppositions being good, you are essentially saying the Spurs team were not good enough to win these games. The other team were too good, the opposition were too tough for us. On this point I beg to differ. In time this team will improve, as mentioned above. We are more or less on teh same page to be honest as you've then said we need to make more of chances and make dominance count. Agreed.

In the pool game I think we were caught up in the Klopp hysteria. Determined to out 'new manager' them and not focused enough on playing our game. In the Scum game, there was a point second half where the players, and fans of both teams, were like funk me, Spurs are totally dominating this. It was a bit of a shock. We were in possession, threatening their box, passing and moving, but not killing the game off. Poch understand this I believe. It is all pretty new territory for this team. There should be fast learning curve with Poch at the helm, and I have every confidence in him to develop the side so they increasingly put flailing teams to the sword, as you put it.

 

[braineclipse]

Its funny, you've emboldened a sentence quoting me, my next sentence starts "Both were tough games..." Not exactly ignoring that these were tough games then.

By putting the reason for the draws (and not wins) on the oppositions being good, you are essentially saying the Spurs team were not good enough to win these games. The other team were too good, the opposition were too tough for us. On this point I beg to differ. In time this team will improve, as mentioned above. We are more or less on teh same page to be honest as you've then said we need to make more of chances and make dominance count. Agreed.

In the pool game I think we were caught up in the Klopp hysteria. Determined to out 'new manager' them and not focused enough on playing our game. In the Scum game, there was a point second half where the players, and fans of both teams, were like funk me, Spurs are totally dominating this. It was a bit of a shock. We were in possession, threatening their box, passing and moving, but not killing the game off. Poch understand this I believe. It is all pretty new territory for this team. There should be fast learning curve with Poch at the helm, and I have every confidence in him to develop the side so they increasingly put flailing teams to the sword, as you put it.

If you put a team to the sword or not is at least partly down to coincidences imo.

No one is arguing that the team shouldn't improve...

 

[milo]

Its funny, you've emboldened a sentence quoting me, my next sentence starts "Both were tough games..." Not exactly ignoring that these were tough games then.

By putting the reason for the draws (and not wins) on the oppositions being good, you are essentially saying the Spurs team were not good enough to win these games. The other team were too good, the opposition were too tough for us. On this point I beg to differ. In time this team will improve, as mentioned above. We are more or less on teh same page to be honest as you've then said we need to make more of chances and make dominance count. Agreed.

In the pool game I think we were caught up in the Klopp hysteria. Determined to out 'new manager' them and not focused enough on playing our game. In the Scum game, there was a point second half where the players, and fans of both teams, were like funk me, Spurs are totally dominating this. It was a bit of a shock. We were in possession, threatening their box, passing and moving, but not killing the game off. Poch understand this I believe. It is all pretty new territory for this team. There should be fast learning curve with Poch at the helm, and I have every confidence in him to develop the side so they increasingly put flailing teams to the sword, as you put it.

 

[metalgear]

Well if your eyes are seeing things others are not I would do something about it.

yeah thats what the nazis and communists said too lol. whatever happened to diversity?

 

[metalgear]

I'm sure most people think that they do that. The challenge for you is to make a cogent argument as to why you are right and others are wrong. I haven't seen you make one.

i did. i said earlier that i thought poch got the subs wrong.

 

[metalgear]

...the irony being that you clearly do NOT do that when judging our team and then making comparisons to Klopp's Liverpool.

Case in point: Liverpool's 3-1 win at Chelski which you were lauding and also saying "you'd never seen the CBs of Chelski being put on their asses" (conveniently forgetting how Kane, Chadli, Eriksen etc did that on NYD..); then lauding Klopp's Liverpool and their results as though they were/are playing and doing so much more fantastically than us.

Assuming you're NOT a WUM, can you not see the irony of your posts?

hmmm....if i slammed liverpools excellent football and compared it against our game against chelsea would you then agree with me?

perhaps the key issue is that i think klopp has them playing better football in a few games than poch in a year with us. that seems to be the fundamental disagreement here. then again its a small sample of games, it remains to be seen if this can be sustained across the season or longer, but it doesn't change my opinion.

i am a spurs fan and wish success and glory for the club over any individual - coach or player.

 

[metalgear]

So we were the much stronger team for 70-ish minutes, could easily have won it and got a draw away against our rivals that would have gone top of the league had they won.

But the only thing that mattered is that we didn't win? It didn't matter that we got the draw? It didn't matter that we were the better team for 70 minutes and deserved to win? Performance doesn't matter?

I can't see how this is looking at the game on it's own.

"they getting to the top of the league had they won" and we getting beat by them in past seasons... really these can't influence that 90minutes of game time, but those 70 can.

 

[glorygloryeze]

hmmm....if i slammed liverpools excellent football and compared it against our game against Chel53a would you then agree with me?

perhaps the key issue is that i think klopp has them playing better football in a few games than poch in a year with us. that seems to be the fundamental disagreement here. then again its a small sample of games, it remains to be seen if this can be sustained across the season or longer, but it doesn't change my opinion.

i am a spurs fan and wish success and glory for the club over any individual - coach or player.

Ok humour me here; what exactly have you been seeing in the few games of watching Klopp that Poch hasn't done in a year with us?
As much detail as you can please.