Tottenham Hotspur Stadium - Licence To Stand

[Bedfordspurs]

what’s the view of the pitch like from there?

No one has ever used it for matchday
When I’ve spoken to staff about it they said it’s used as a quick way to move across the stadium for staff

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The Sky Bridge was the idea of the architects Populous not Levy, when they presented it in the original plans to Levy he liked the idea but it has proved to be bit of a gimmick. Problem is when it's windy the whole roof flexes up and down so the Sky Bridge moves with it, described as like being on a train in motion. A walk on the Sky Bridge is included in the 3 hour + technical tour of the stadium which starts at £120 but I doubt it will get used for anything else.

The sky bridge isn’t attached to the roof
Where’s did you get this info from?

 

[SirPercyHotspur]

what’s the view of the pitch like from there?

Never been up there but you probably would have a near vertical view of the north goal , spectacular but is it ideal for watching a match.

 

[SirPercyHotspur]

The sky bridge isn’t attached to the roof
Where’s did you get this info from?

Clearly states in the book on the stadium build that the Sky Bridge is suspended from the roof , certainly attached to the roof support struts, the Sky Bridge in the north stand.

 

[SirPercyHotspur]

A few extra seats won't do much for revenue anyway unless it's corporate. 5,000 extra seats sold at £80 for 23 games is £9.2m - not nothing but would also raise our matchday costs as well.

You are right, no need to increase capacity for increased revenue just convert existing seats for premium use, the north stand mid tier is designed to be converted if needed as shown in the original stadium plans.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Zero mention of any expansion possibilities in the book "Destination Tottenham" which specifically deals with the stadium construction. The only way to possibly extend any stand is to remove the roof, it's cable net construction would mean the whole lot would have to be removed, two seasons at Wembley anyone , no thank you.

I reckon they could suspend some seats from the cabling in both the north and south stands, getting in and out and facilities would be a challenge though.

 

[SirPercyHotspur]

I reckon they could suspend some seats from the cabling in both the north and south stands, getting in and out and facilities would be a challenge though.

Or remove the roof panels , reckon you get get a few more fans on the support struts.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

There's clearly some space in the South stand east and west corners as the east and west stand tiers come to an abrupt end there. Problem is youd have to move the massive screens and it might not even be possible from an engineering pov.

Probably just not worth it as I can only imagine it would add approx 4k seats in total ...too much cost and ball ache.tbh

Funny having a expand the stadium conversation 2 months after just surviving relegation

 

[DubaiSpur]

There's clearly some space in the South stand east and west corners as the east and west stand tiers come to an abrupt end there. Problem is youd have to move the massive screens and it might not even be possible from an engineering pov.

Probably just not worth it as I can only imagine it would add approx 4k seats in total ...too much cost and ball ache.tbh

Funny having a expand the stadium conversation 2 months after just surviving relegation

I asked about expansion earlier and was told it's physically impossible - whole roof is supported by that pre-tensioned ring, and that would apparently need to be completely dismantled to add any more seats. The economics wouldn't work out given the roof alone cost over a hundred million to assemble.

Tbh it always struck me as poor future-proofing - since we've built ours, United have started planning for a 100k stadium, and the Emirates will likely be expanded to 75k. Eventually it will be a problem in terms of keeping up on matchday revenue. But I appreciate it's not an issue we'll need to consider for at least another decade and a bit.

 

[Bullet]

MNU can’t afford a new 100k stadium
It will cost 2bn+ which becomes 4bn as they overspend on construction
They are just posturing

The easiest way to get to 75k seats is to replace the plush seats with seats 80% the current size

 

[Bullet]

Or keep the seats but have more fans and say you can spend 80% of the game in ANY seat and 20% of the game getting beer / food / urinating

 

[Baleforce]

I asked about expansion earlier and was told it's physically impossible - whole roof is supported by that pre-tensioned ring, and that would apparently need to be completely dismantled to add any more seats. The economics wouldn't work out given the roof alone cost over a hundred million to assemble.

Tbh it always struck me as poor future-proofing - since we've built ours, United have started planning for a 100k stadium, and the Emirates will likely be expanded to 75k. Eventually it will be a problem in terms of keeping up on matchday revenue. But I appreciate it's not an issue we'll need to consider for at least another decade and a bit.

we don't need to expand, if demand goes up, raise the ticket price

 

[SirPercyHotspur]

Is there point in worrying about any expansion at The Woolwich, first hurdle is to get planning permission from Islington Council which won't be easy. According to Google The Emirates is still restricted to 6 non football events a year and only 3 of those can be concerts so the council are difficult to deal with , so to get a 10,000 seat expansion through may not be that easy. Plus the economics , if 10,000 seats are added they almost certainly have to go upwards and have a very lofty view of the pitch so they won't be the best seats in the house. Let's say £100 a seat, that would bring in £1,000,000 a game not including drinks/food sales , over a PL 19 game season that's £19,000,000 plus any euro games
How much would it cost to add those seats I have read estimates of up to £500,000,000 plus the fact removing the roof to go upwards probably would mean a stint at Wembley while it's being done , The Lane will be the largest club stadium in London for a while yet.

‘Complex’ considerations for Arsenal in pursuing stadium expansion plan | New Civil Engineer

The Premier League club started playing in its 60,000 capacity stadium in 2006 after moving from the nearby Highbury Stadium to satisfy the growing demand

www.newcivilengineer.com

PS Best way for us to increase revenue is not worry about extra seats but consistent top 4 and Champions League, that brings in the money.

PSS The roof basically stops any expansion of The Lane, it would cost a fortune to take down and the economic benefits of a few more seats just don't make any sense.

Why did the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium roof pulse during Storm Eunice? | New Civil Engineer

Videos emerged of the stadium’s roof billowing up and down in the gale force winds, which is to be expected on a stadium that stands 48m high. In the past

www.newcivilengineer.com

 

[DubaiSpur]

Is there point in worrying about any expansion at The Woolwich, first hurdle is to get planning permission from Islington Council which won't be easy. According to Google The Emirates is still restricted to 6 non football events a year and only 3 of those can be concerts so the council are difficult to deal with , so to get a 10,000 seat expansion through may not be that easy. Plus the economics , if 10,000 seats are added they almost certainly have to go upwards and have a very lofty view of the pitch so they won't be the best seats in the house. Let's say £100 a seat, that would bring in £1,000,000 a game not including drinks/food sales , over a PL 19 game season that's £19,000,000 plus any euro games
How much would it cost to add those seats I have read estimates of up to £500,000,000 plus the fact removing the roof to go upwards probably would mean a stint at Wembley while it's being done , The Lane will be the largest club stadium in London for a while yet.

‘Complex’ considerations for Arsenal in pursuing stadium expansion plan | New Civil Engineer

The Premier League club started playing in its 60,000 capacity stadium in 2006 after moving from the nearby Highbury Stadium to satisfy the growing demand

www.newcivilengineer.com

PS Best way for us to increase revenue is not worry about extra seats but consistent top 4 and Champions League, that brings in the money.

PSS The roof basically stops any expansion of The Lane, it would cost a fortune to take down and the economic benefits of a few more seats just don't make any sense.

Why did the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium roof pulse during Storm Eunice? | New Civil Engineer

Videos emerged of the stadium’s roof billowing up and down in the gale force winds, which is to be expected on a stadium that stands 48m high. In the past

www.newcivilengineer.com

IMO, obstructionist councils tend to stop being obstructionist when you stuff their mouths with cash - was the case for us once the riots happened and Haringey realised what Spurs leaving would potentially mean for their tax revenues in an already deprived borough. Credit to Levy for his maneuver using the OS to threaten an exit - smart on his part.

Granted Islington are far richer so that's not as much of an issue for them, but all it would take (imo) is Arsenal threatening to leave, for them to cave. Like us, that lot are still the main taxpayers in that borough.

On the economics, I agree it would be difficult for us - like I said, the roof cost over £100m (iirc) just to assemble. I don't see the value in doing it just to add 5,000 seats - it would either need to be a major capacity upgrade or part of a larger redesign. Potentially combining capacity upgrades with converting middle tier to premium seating, and maybe a closing roof or something to increase attractiveness for events.

But for them, maybe the economics work out better given their stadium is 13 years older and their roof isn't as mechanically complex as ours.

On our roof btw, it's more and more seeming like a bit of an own goal that it was designed the way it was - not only does it limit expansion, but that large Skybar thing isn't even usable because of the flexing, I believe?

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

we don't need to expand, if demand goes up, raise the ticket price

Yeh, clubs employ CRM experts to work stuff out, there would have been a long consultancy on what the optimum is to the club and to yield profit over capacity and then work out the overheads/operational costs. There would have been no guess work or plucking the figure out the air or no consideration about the future.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Yeh, clubs employ CRM experts to work stuff out, there would have been a long consultancy on what the optimum is to the club and to yield profit over capacity and then work out the overheads/operational costs. There would have been no guess work or plucking the figure out the air or no consideration about the future.

Defo mate, but risk management relies on a certain set of assumptions about the future that don't always pan out - statistically-based foresight models and projections can't function without them, but black swan events can upset their calculations.

Not saying they haven't done their homework (impossible not to on a billion-pound project with someone as risk-averse as Levy). But I'd be curious to see how they weighted the competitive risks of, for instance, all Spurs' expected rivals upgrading stadiums, or increasingly severe weather events forcing the sorts of concerts, etc. that we are profiting from, indoors in the summers.

Certainly we had our first black swan event less than a year after the stadium opened, when the entire world shut down due to COVID. And that doesn't seem to have done us much long-term harm, in terms of revenue generation. But interesting to think about.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Defo mate, but risk management relies on a certain set of assumptions about the future that don't always pan out - statistically-based foresight models and projections can't function without them, but black swan events can upset their calculations.

Not saying they haven't done their homework (impossible not to on a billion-pound project with someone as risk-averse as Levy). But I'd be curious to see how they weighted the competitive risks of, for instance, all Spurs' expected rivals upgrading stadiums, or increasingly severe weather events forcing the sorts of concerts, etc. that we are profiting from, indoors in the summers.

Certainly we had our first black swan event less than a year after the stadium opened, when the entire world shut down due to COVID. And that doesn't seem to have done us much long-term harm, in terms of revenue generation. But interesting to think about.

Yeh. Anything can happen for sure.

I think the next thing the club need to fighting for is a Tube station hahah

 

[SirPercyHotspur]

IMO, obstructionist councils tend to stop being obstructionist when you stuff their mouths with cash - was the case for us once the riots happened and Haringey realised what Spurs leaving would potentially mean for their tax revenues in an already deprived borough. Credit to Levy for his maneuver using the OS to threaten an exit - smart on his part.

Granted Islington are far richer so that's not as much of an issue for them, but all it would take (imo) is Arsenal threatening to leave, for them to cave. Like us, that lot are still the main taxpayers in that borough.

On the economics, I agree it would be difficult for us - like I said, the roof cost over £100m (iirc) just to assemble. I don't see the value in doing it just to add 5,000 seats - it would either need to be a major capacity upgrade or part of a larger redesign. Potentially combining capacity upgrades with converting middle tier to premium seating, and maybe a closing roof or something to increase attractiveness for events.

But for them, maybe the economics work out better given their stadium is 13 years older and their roof isn't as mechanically complex as ours.

On our roof btw, it's more and more seeming like a bit of an own goal that it was designed the way it was - not only does it limit expansion, but that large Skybar thing isn't even usable because of the flexing, I believe?

No chance ever of a closing roof, the structure would be far too heavy , the south stand with it's two trees would collapse under the weight . The stadium relies on the sliding pitch to make it a money spinner, to have a closing roof you would have to get rid of the south stand . The sliding panels at Real Madrid weigh 800 tons each , the complete roof at Spurs weight 600 tons. The whole stadium expansion idea is a non starter , it's plenty big enough.

Other councils also block concerts at stadiums, at the moment Twickenham are only allowed three concerts a year.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Fai

No chance ever of a closing roof, the structure would be far too heavy , the south stand with it's two trees would collapse under the weight . The stadium relies on the sliding pitch to make it a money spinner, to have a closing roof you would have to get rid of the south stand . The sliding panels at Real Madrid weigh 800 tons each , the complete roof at Spurs weight 600 tons. The whole stadium expansion idea is a non starter , it's plenty big enough.

Other councils also block concerts at stadiums, at the moment Twickenham are only allowed three concerts a year.

Fair enough mate, but it plays into my point that a capacity upgrade would involve a major rebuild given how much the existing roof limits that sort of thing. I'd say at a minimum the roof would need to be disassembled and reassembled, and based on what you're saying, we might need to reinforce or rebuild stands as well. So while doing it, you could probably also do other things if you wanted, like making the middle tier corporate seating or making the south stand safe standing - things like that.

Wouldn't be a quick job, or a cheap one - and not one we need to worry about for another decade or so. But eventually, it will be a question imo, simply because other stadiums will catch up and surpass ours down the line and the world might evolve to make such a thing necessary (for instance, prolonged heatwaves forcing events indoors).

 

[SirPercyHotspur]

Yeh. Anything can happen for sure.

I think the next thing the club need to fighting for is a Tube station hahah

Another avenue that has been explored and reached a dead end. TFL did a study and concluded that having two stations serving North Tottenham i.e Northumberland Park and WHL was adequate and that the cost of an extension. A branch line up to Northumberland Park was suggested but then that would have a negative effect on the Victoria Line at Tottenham Hale , Blackhorse Rd and Walthamstow Central station as any such branch could only be served by northbound trains so that would reduce any service at the above stations. Victoria Line has one of the best frequencies in the world , why ruin it for a football stadium, nothing wrong with a good walk to Seven Sisters or TH , keeps people fit.
Crossrail 2 will serve NP when built but it is light years away, that will be TFL's next massive outlay.

The Victoria line, spanning from Brixton to Walthamstow Central, boasts an exceptional train frequency of 36 departures per hour. Its exceptional service ranks among the highest globally, second only to Moscows Metro, which dispatch trains at remarkably frequent 95-second intervals