Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[Yossarian]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

What about calling people who questioned AVB's tactics cavemen is that allowed?

I had issues with his tactics and i have never been in a cave in my life not even Cheddar Gorge when we visited because i do not like confined spaces. I thought AVB was probably a decent coach but he proved towards the end he was not suited to the English game, his shackles on the players and how they were scared to go into the final third in case they lost possession were his undoing. Does not make someone a caveman for thinking so.

Cheddar Gorge is a big letdown. You did well to miss it.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Firstly, thanks for trying to get the thread back on topic.

I think that we are moving towards a definite 4-3-3 now and was what he had always intended, as it is what he played with the development squad.

I think that the brief flirtation with 4-4-2 was to get more players pushing forwards and because if lack of available time on the training pitch.

I don't think that we will switch formations too much in the run in. We've got some tough games coming up and the players need to know what they and their teammates will be doing.

Interesting.

So who would people have in their first choice 11 if we are going towards 4-3-3 being our main formation?

For different situations.

Mine (for home games where we are expected to dominate possession):

Lloris

Walker Kaboul Verts Rose

Sandro
Paulinho Bentaleb

Lennon Siggy
Ade/Soldado


=======

For away games where we may or may nit dominate possession but may face pace and set-piece bombardment and may need to be able to play on the break ourselves:

Lloris

Walker Kaboul Verts Rose

Sandro
Paulinho Dembele

Townsend Chadli
Ade

==========

For those top 4/5/6 six-pointers:

Lloris

Walker Kaboul Verts Rose

Sandro
Paulinho Dembele

Townsend Eriksen
Ade

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

F-Me! Just realised how much I struggled with that.

How big is our squad now??!

 

[stinkfoot]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Couldn't be bothered starting a thread about it so just jumped into the current top one to let everyone know, David Ginola is on TalkSport now (until midnight) for Danny Kelly's 'My Sporting Life' series.

 

[Hootnow]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Just because a player doesn't care as much for you club as you do doesn't mean its okay to shout childish insults at them while they are performing for your club.
Modric was no different than any other player we had. They'd all be off we someone big enough came in for them. The difference is he's good enough to be poached.

Anyway back to Sherwood whats funny is those who feel Sherwood isn't intellectual enough and comes across as thick have resorted to name calling.
The cavemen posters that had issues with AVB's abilities never had the smarts to do that.

I've never insulted one of our players, either at WHL or on here. I didn't call Modric rat face and still don't, I think name calling is childish to be completely honest, whether its rat face,****ball or Timmeh.

But there is a difference between insulting a player who wanted to leave to one of our direct rivals (and clearly colluded with them to try to get us to sell to them and only them for a low price) and insulting our manager, who, like him or loathe him, will be our manager for the next 3 months regardless of what happens.

 

[metalgear]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

F-Me! Just realised how much I struggled with that.

How big is our squad now??!

yes its huge and considering that we still have an unbalanced squad ... there in some questions for baldini and the committee (levy).

 

[metalgear]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

fine if you guys get upset with "Timmeh* then i'll stop using that...is *deadwood* ok though, its more like a term of endearment

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

yes its huge and considering that we still have an unbalanced squad ... there in some questions for baldini and the committee (levy).

I don't agree it's either huge or unbalanced.



--------------------Lloris
-------------------(Friedel)

--Walker-----Dawson--Vertonghen---()
(Naughton)--(Kaboul)-(Chiriches)--(Rose)

------------Paulinho------Sandro
-----------(Dembele)----(Capoue)

---Lennon-------Eriksen------Sigurdsson
--(Lamela/Townsend)------(Holtby)-----(Chadli)

-------------------Soldado
-----------------(Adebayor)



Add a LB and maybe swap Siggy for a proper inverted left-sider, and it's a perfect squad of 22. 2 players for each position, quality across the board, but not baggy in any position (except maybe one too many RM).

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

fine if you guys get upset with "Timmeh* then i'll stop using that...is *deadwood* ok though, its more like a term of endearment

As the person who (I believe) coined Timmeh, I don't intend it to be that offensive. It was both a South Park reference and obviously Tim-meh. But compared to Nice But Dim or Wormtongue or some of the others that we flying around at the time, it was a bit fluffier than them. Deadwood is good, but that was much more fitting for his playing career with us.

I think there's a careful line. For someone who had very strong feelings about Redknapp, I would never use any that related to his physical appearence/car crash. Ones relating to his behaviour like Readies Redknapp or Del Boy though were absolutely fair game.

 

[metalgear]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

ugh ... all this PC stuff is doing my head in!

on a brighter note Timmy's quite witty too:

Sherwood shrugged off the comments of the Arsenal striker Olivier Giroud, who said that he had tried to get the Tottenham goalkeeper Hugo Lloris, his friend and France team-mate, to join him at the Emirates Stadium. Giroud said that Lloris was up for the switch.

"It doesn't annoy me," Sherwood said. "It would annoy his goalie at Arsenal [Wojciech Szczesny], you would have thought."

 

[danish-ardiles]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think that it will be up to some of the key players. Verthongen and Lloris have shown frustration of the lack of tactics, and i think they will leayve if Sherwood stays. Sherwood have been a huge success with a lot of points, but the only thing he has really done, is to bring back Adebayor and Eriksen (who was injured under AVB), and discover Bentaleb. We won 4-0 against a mediocre Saudi Sportswashing Machine team, and still Lloris was MoM, that says alot IMO.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think that it will be up to some of the key players. Verthongen and Lloris have shown frustration of the lack of tactics, and i think they will leayve if Sherwood stays. Sherwood have been a huge success with a lot of points, but the only thing he has really done, is to bring back Adebayor and Eriksen (who was injured under AVB), and discover Bentaleb. We won 4-0 against a mediocre Saudi Sportswashing Machine team, and still Lloris was MoM, that says alot IMO.

How do you define a lack of tactics? Is the team setting up the same and with the same instructions now as in his early games in charge?

 

[Hootnow]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

ugh ... all this PC stuff is doing my head in!

on a brighter note Timmy's quite witty too:

PC? What on here is even slightly related to being pc?

This has to be the most overused and misused term of our time alongside bleeding heart liberal. It has completely lost all meaning.

 

[Hootnow]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think that it will be up to some of the key players. Verthongen and Lloris have shown frustration of the lack of tactics, and i think they will leayve if Sherwood stays. Sherwood have been a huge success with a lot of points, but the only thing he has really done, is to bring back Adebayor and Eriksen (who was injured under AVB), and discover Bentaleb. We won 4-0 against a mediocre Saudi Sportswashing Machine team, and still Lloris was MoM, that says alot IMO.

Where did they show frustration with the lack of tactics?

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

There is a difference between asking a question and sticking a nose into team affairs, just as there's a difference between standing your ground and refusing to allow boardroom interference versus handling the situation with an understanding of 'we' rather than 'me'…it's a difference I'd suggest that AVB was unable to make due to a variety of reasons, stemming from inexperience and 'silver spoon syndrome'…let's face it, life has not ever thrown him serious challenges from which he needed to work 'up' through? Please note, this is NOT a criticism, it is an observation. In fact, I often wonder how AVB was brought up? Was the word 'no' ever used? Was he spoilt relentlessly as a child? Was it always 'his' way? I sincerely hope he sorts it out, because I think he is a supremely intelligent man who can become a top top coach...

Careful Steff, with comments like these, you may run into the one man, self appointed, thought police where not even the slightest criticism/comment is allowed.

Oops... Too late I see!

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I don't agree it's either huge or unbalanced.



--------------------Lloris
-------------------(Friedel)

--Walker-----Dawson--Vertonghen---()
(Naughton)--(Kaboul)-(Chiriches)--(Rose)

------------Paulinho------Sandro
-----------(Dembele)----(Capoue)

---Lennon-------Eriksen------Sigurdsson
--(Lamela/Townsend)------(Holtby)-----(Chadli)

-------------------Soldado
-----------------(Adebayor)



Add a LB and maybe swap Siggy for a proper inverted left-sider, and it's a perfect squad of 22. 2 players for each position, quality across the board, but not baggy in any position (except maybe one too many RM).

Unfortunately, that does make it somewhat unbalanced IMO.

No left back cover/upgrade

No genuine line leading CF cover/upgrade

No natural wide left player

Too many CMs, 'hole' players, and right hand sided midfield players/wingers and two very different goalkeepers that require totally different set ups and tactics.

By no means an ideal squad balance IMO

 

[metalgear]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

^ thanks for that.

beyond just big and unbalanced, the opportunity costs of not getting proper players that could mean securing top 4.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Careful Steff, with comments like these, you may run into the one man, self appointed, thought police where not even the slightest criticism/comment is allowed.

Oops... Too late I see!

:lol:

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think that it will be up to some of the key players. Verthongen and Lloris have shown frustration of the lack of tactics, and i think they will leayve if Sherwood stays. Sherwood have been a huge success with a lot of points, but the only thing he has really done, is to bring back Adebayor and Eriksen (who was injured under AVB), and discover Bentaleb. We won 4-0 against a mediocre Saudi Sportswashing Machine team, and still Lloris was MoM, that says alot IMO.

In hindsight I agree with your final sentence re Lloris having to make a lot of saves, but can you give a detailed example of what you saw to come up with the bolded bit? That's a BIG thing to say without showing how you saw this

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Do you really hold the viewpoint that it's all down to players now having been here for 6 months? If you do then which particular players do you feel have suddenly had that '6 month light bulb on' moment that coincided with the new manager taking over?

It's not about an individual player making the change, it's about the team getting used to each other and gelling. With the number of changes we were forced to make over the summer it's no surprise this didn't happen instantly.

Also qualifying for the Champions League once makes it MUCH easier to then achieve regular qualification. If we qualify for the Champions League this season then we stand a better chance of the likes of Lloris, Vertonghen, Paulinho, Sandro, etc wanting to stay at the club. We should also be able to attract a better class of player, our revenue also increases so that we have the opportunity to spend more money on transfer fees.

In the three years since Redknapp qualified us for our single Champions league season we have finished:

5th - 6 points off qualification place.
4th - 1 point off 3rd place & qualification taken away through means beynod our control.
5th - 1 point off qualification place.

The one off qualification sets you up to be able to have an attempt at a sustained run, otherwise you constantly have the cycle of losing your best players.

The only teams to have qualified from the PL outside of those who were always expected to were Spurs, Everton and Leeds. None of those teams did it again and they've all sold off their best players. A one-off qualification (especially when gifted by a better team screwing up) does nothing but add fixtures and make qualification the next year more difficult.

I would say that players who like/respect their manager continue to work hard for the whole game even if they are losing comphrensively.... I was appalled at our players demeanor on the pitch against Emirates Marketing Project at the Etihad and in our spanking at WHL by Liverpool. Getting a proper tonking will always put the manager under pressure and it appeared to me as though the players didn't care about this.

Funny, I've heard a few Woolwich fans say exactly the same about the demeanour of their players - I sincerely doubt any of them don't respect Wenger though.

The way I see it there will always be a number of players that like the manager and a few players that don't , this will be the same with pretty much any manager at any club (unless they come in and do a Cloughie at Leeds of course). Typically the players who like the manager are the ones who are in his plans and those that dislike the manager tend to be ones that aren't. The key is for the manager to be able to ensure that he can still get a good performance out of the players who don't like him.

That depends - there are some players who simply can't/won't deal with discipline. That's nothing to do with who the manager is, that's just wanting an easy life. Shipping them out is the best way to do it, but it requires the support of the chairman (and it gets really complicated if another club is subsidising the wages of one of them).

Or perhaps Kaboul genuinely holds those thoughts about Sherwood? From what I have heard around the place many people at the club had been impressed with Sherwood and thought he was likely to be a future manager. I find it interesting that you feel Kaboul must be sucking up to the manager simply because his thoughts differ from yours.

My assumption would be that any player (especially one coming back into the team) praising the new manager is doing so to kiss ass. I doubt that any player loves their manager enough that they just can't hold it in any longer and simply must call their PR man and ask him to call a tabloid and arrange an interview.

This is an interesting take on things.... I think Sherwood has learnt lessons very quickly. He has regularly changed our formation, personell and shape for games to good effect. The Southampton match early on in his tenure was a good example of this. I don't think he has a real set way of playing - he talks about attacking football and no need for defensive midfielders because they are good 'Spurs' type soundbites I think, however it seems to me as though he is quite adaptable in terms of his football philosophy with one simple ethos which is that he won't be a 'safety first' type manager.

I think that making the same mistakes for 10 matches in a row and finally learning is a problem - especially when the world and his dog is pointing out those problems. And when they didn't exist before he took over. I think we were an on-form striker and a good bit of understanding in the final third away from a really good system. Since Timmeh took over we've gone a long way out from that and then back in again.

There were some scary moments where it seemed as if Timmeh saw the scoreline and thought "Ah, must have got it right then". I got the impression from what he was saying that he thought we were doing the right thing, just not doing it well enough.

I trust that you haver never had a conversation with Jamie Redknapp? He is actually a thoroughly nice guy, polite, engaging and intelligent. I wouldn't mind get stuck in a broken down lift with Jamie Redknapp and talking football for a few hours.... My wife said that she would be even more keen to get stuck in a lift with him.... although I can't think why - because she hates football!

I've had the misfortune on more than one occasion. Should a physicist be looking for a perfect vacuum in which to experiment, I suggest the space between Redknapp Jr's ears would make a very good test bed.