• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Thomas Frank - Head Coach

Gazza Dazzla said:
if we don’t improve? What’s your time limit on this?
Click to expand...
Our league form is beyond poor, and teams below us are winning games including against us.

If we don't beat Saudi Sportswashing Machine he should be gone IMO otherwise we are seriously risking leaving it too late, and I wouldn't argue with any of those saying he should be sacked already....
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
Yep, as are the answers to questions like:
Was brexit good for the economy?
Is Trump a good leader?
Should slavery have been abolished?

Common sense leads you in a certain direction though.
Click to expand...
Yet here we are...

After the West Ham & Burnley games my thought was that we may as well leave him in charge through the tough run of fixtures, culminating in the NLD. Bringing a new guy in hoping for a bounce but lining him up with City United & Arsenal negates that - so the time to do it would be after that run unless we picked up some results in that period.
 
Last edited:
Finney Is Back said:
Nope wasn’t me. Your memory doesn’t serve you well. I didn’t think we were in danger of relegation last year (whereas this year I staked quite a large sum on it happening).

Regarding David Moyes though, I think he is a better manager than Frank by a long way (and Ange too).
Click to expand...

I put money on us to go down after we lost and before West Ham played yesterday. Also chucked a few quid on Arsenal winning the league and CL. This season feels like it’s a scum fan’s wet dream.
 
billyiddo said:
Yet here we are...

After the West Ham & Burnley games my thought was that we may as well leave him in charge through the tough run of fixtures, culminating in the NLD. Bringing a new guy in hoping for a bounce but lining him up with City United & Arsenal negates that - so the time to do it would be after that run unless we picked up a some results in that period.
Click to expand...
It could be that. They may have just assumed we’d get the results on that easy run of fixtures, but with us completely failing then your left with giving a caretaker the tough run, which isn’t very fair. Maybe he’s done after the Goons either way?

I have to say though I don’t trust this current board to do it or have anyone lined up.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
I have to say though I don’t trust this current board to do it or have anyone lined up.
Click to expand...

Me either, and this is not a defence of Frank (I feel I have to say this) but without a plan and with him still in charge I think we win on Tuesday and that pretty much (IMO) keeps us up as I think we fall over the line with the rest needed, but it more about the board lucking out on anything they have done than a plan.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
It could be that. They may have just assumed we’d get the results on that easy run of fixtures, but with us completely failing then your left with giving a caretaker the tough run, which isn’t very fair. Maybe he’s done after the Goons either way?

I have to say though I don’t trust this current board to do it or have anyone lined up.
Click to expand...

I would not be surprised if it’s Ryan Mason.
 
Raziel said:
You are 100% right about Ange

You however are doing exactly what you accuse others of, you are so convinced of the poor squad quality that you refuse to acknowledge Frank is an awful manager (for us), his numbers are beyond question now, he's worse than Gross, Ramos, you name it, he's worse than Amorim, Potter at Chelsea, literally no one has done worse.

Lets assume we are both correct
- Frank is brick
- Squad is brick

The ownership can fix one right now

The interim should be tasked with two things, get 9 more points and get the squad fit for next season.

I actually think the next manager (if we pick right, yes big if) will have an easy ride for first season
- No Europe, so less games
- Hopefully fit squad, Maddison, Deki, Kudus, fit Solanke, Xavi with a season under his belt.
- Owners will probably feel obligated to make some kind of investment over summer
- Top 8 and winning a few games at home will feel like massive success due to the bar being reset so low for two seasons.
Click to expand...

I agree with you that the next guy will likely have an easier ride, but I also think Frank would have an easier ride next season too. He would have all of those factors plus the benefit of not trying to transition the squad’s style of play and coaching experience.

Part of me thinks, if the club had a well thought through plan, based on wider trends, Frank’s proven longevity and an assessed quality they judged in the recruitment process, then I’m going to be really annoyed if they sack him. If they are truly thinking long term, blocking out noise, and believe in him, then have the courage of your convictions. Actually stick it through. Because I think they made a big call in sacking Ange. And I think if it was truly a long term bet, you don’t sack the guy after a tough transitional season with a brick load of injuries if you genuinely do believe in him.

On the other hand, if the idea was they genuinely thought Ange was bad, and caused all the injuries, and was tactically naive, and thought Frank was the pragmatic antidote, then I would say sack him now, hire an interim and get Poch. Because through that lens, it just hasn’t worked.
 
Raziel said:
You are 100% right about Ange

You however are doing exactly what you accuse others of, you are so convinced of the poor squad quality that you refuse to acknowledge Frank is an awful manager (for us), his numbers are beyond question now, he's worse than Gross, Ramos, you name it, he's worse than Amorim, Potter at Chelsea, literally no one has done worse.

Lets assume we are both correct
- Frank is brick
- Squad is brick

The ownership can fix one right now

The interim should be tasked with two things, get 9 more points and get the squad fit for next season.

I actually think the next manager (if we pick right, yes big if) will have an easy ride for first season
- No Europe, so less games
- Hopefully fit squad, Maddison, Deki, Kudus, fit Solanke, Xavi with a season under his belt.
- Owners will probably feel obligated to make some kind of investment over summer
- Top 8 and winning a few games at home will feel like massive success due to the bar being reset so low for two seasons.
Click to expand...
I'm fine with Frank not being up to spec, my angle is only that I'm happy waiting until the end of the season to make my mind up.

I don't think it's likely that we get a permanent appointment at this point of the season so I question the merits of making that change when yes I do think squad quality is as big if not a bigger issue than the actual manager.
 
Bishop said:
I'm fine with Frank not being up to spec, my angle is only that I'm happy waiting until the end of the season to make my mind up.

I don't think it's likely that we get a permanent appointment at this point of the season so I question the merits of making that change when yes I do think squad quality is as big if not a bigger issue than the actual manager.
Click to expand...

My main concern is it will be too late if we don’t change Frank before the end of the season.
 
Bishop said:
I'm fine with Frank not being up to spec, my angle is only that I'm happy waiting until the end of the season to make my mind up.

I don't think it's likely that we get a permanent appointment at this point of the season so I question the merits of making that change when yes I do think squad quality is as big if not a bigger issue than the actual manager.
Click to expand...
A Mason bounce, like we got in his last two spells, will get us over the safe line quick enough. Maybe even get us chasing a EC spot.

He's also really good at unscrambling players and getting them passing and moving, which should help the next permanent guy. Remember Ange's 10 game brilliant start came off the back of Mason's foundations
 
Gutter Boy said:
A Mason bounce, like we got in his last two spells, will get us over the safe line quick enough. Maybe even get us chasing a EC spot.

He's also really good at unscrambling players and getting them passing and moving, which should help the next permanent guy. Remember Ange's 10 game brilliant start came off the back of Mason's foundations
Click to expand...

Did a bang up job at WBA.
 
Bishop said:
Thats a fair point, maybe I'm overly harsh on the squad (I don't think I am) but I look at the deficiencies and I find myself questioning what someone new would do to dramatically improve us.
Click to expand...

I share your views on the squad being poor and there’s still some delusion about certain players, Vicario being better than Raya for example. But new manager bounce is a real thing, and if it gains us 9 points or so it would be totally worth it. Does anyone really think Frank will be here next season? If no then why is he still here?
 
Bishop said:
I truly think that if we had kept Ange the poor results would have continued and we would have just sacked him 5-10 games into the season. Sacking him in the summer just took the initiative on that move.

This bounce you think may have occured would just be a temporary salve. The quality of the squad is neither there in absolute terms and especially wasn't suited to the pin point demands of Ange.

Something that I find a little strange is that despite a second consecutive season of brick results and performances on the back of years of a general downward trend so many think our issues are manager related moreso than they are quality of player related.

I think we are just going to need to see our 3rd manager in 3 seasons next year before it really begins to stick, but I can predict already that whomever that manager is will get criticised first before the realization of the limitations of the squad are accepted.
Click to expand...

I simply mentioned it as an alternative point of view. I appreciate your reasoned response and acceptance that on such intangible subjects, all we have are opinions and discussions not black and white rights or wrongs. Sadly, I am increasingly finding that approach and attitude is not in high volume these days. I suppose that is a global affair sadly...
 
Mikey10 said:
Doing that consistently probably is tbf.

I know we’re not supposed to bring up the quality of the teams in the EL last year on here, and that we’re (according to some) denigrating the club’s achievement if we do, but it is a fact that it was poor, with - for the first time - no CL teams dropping down. The final was played between two teams who finished right on the edge of relegation from the PL.

It was a great night; we were all delighted that we broke our trophy drought; and it was something else to see Sonny lift a cup before he left. But the fact that we were favourites to win the competition before it kicked off told its own story.
Click to expand...
We were never favourites to win the Europa. The favoured were Porto, Man Utd, and Bilbao. We were below those three... and Roma as well. It was a very good win for us and it is tougher than Brentford staying in the PL.

Also we were favourites to win Euro Conference League in the inaugural year - how did that go?
 
afsoc4life said:
We were never favourites to win the Europa. The favoured were Porto, Man Utd, and Bilbao. We were below those three... and Roma as well. It was a very good win for us and it is tougher than Brentford staying in the PL.

Also we were favourites to win Euro Conference League in the inaugural year - how did that go?
Click to expand...
We were bookies' odds on the entire competition. There were no particularly decent Spanish, Italian or German sides in it. Was there maybe Villareal or someone we were keen to avoid in one of the draws. But no one strong really
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
I agree with you that the next guy will likely have an easier ride, but I also think Frank would have an easier ride next season too. He would have all of those factors plus the benefit of not trying to transition the squad’s style of play and coaching experience.

Part of me thinks, if the club had a well thought through plan, based on wider trends, Frank’s proven longevity and an assessed quality they judged in the recruitment process, then I’m going to be really annoyed if they sack him. If they are truly thinking long term, blocking out noise, and believe in him, then have the courage of your convictions. Actually stick it through. Because I think they made a big call in sacking Ange. And I think if it was truly a long term bet, you don’t sack the guy after a tough transitional season with a brick load of injuries if you genuinely do believe in him.

On the other hand, if the idea was they genuinely thought Ange was bad, and caused all the injuries, and was tactically naive, and thought Frank was the pragmatic antidote, then I would say sack him now, hire an interim and get Poch. Because through that lens, it just hasn’t worked.
Click to expand...

Every appointment is a risk, and you can make more than one mistake in a row.

Frank, regardless of how he measured up on criteria, whatever thoughts the club had, isn't the guy. To believe this guy is going to take us from 2 wins in 16, this horrendous home record, failure to dominate any games and is going to somehow turn that into a top 6 side (minimum bar) just isn't realistic.

The question really is do they fire now or in summer, the argument for now would be even a 2-3 game new manager bounce would be enough to keep us out of trouble.

Then summer you try again, my perspective remains get a manager than can get you top 6-8 with this squad, and then you give them two top signings, that with no Europe next year should give us a good shot at putting the club back into proper league positions, and you add again the following summer and push on from there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back