metalgear
Chris Jones
yep can hope we don't meet them til the semis
if i were TF, I would try to emulate Ange and prioritise the CL
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Thomas Frank - Head Coach
- Thread starter LutonSpurs
- Start date
if i were TF, I would try to emulate Ange and prioritise the CL
Bishop
Jimmy McCormick
Yeah it was a hopeful vote, more so than my expectations. I actually voted Europa league and Top 8.
braineclipse
Garth Crooks
I agree and if we can sign great players who are well rounded and can do well in multiple systems do that. I think it opens up more options in the transfer market if we can know in broad terms at least how we're likely to play in the next 5 years.
I think that also makes it easier to prioritise well. Right now, if we're going to keep playing a similar style to now I think the easiest "fix" would be a really good target man/holdup player up front. That nay not be the priority of another manager if Frank is replaced. Should we then prioritise that? (assuming of course that Frank and the club see that fix the way I see it, but even if that's not the case there will imo be other situations like that)
I also think that's useful with regards to signing and developing younger players. We have some really technically gifted young players now, the way to develop them imo is with a style that's set up to get the best out of players like that.
braineclipse
Garth Crooks
If we had won all the games you suggested we'd be 2nd and you think you're expectations are not too high? You're delusional.
Literally the next paragraph in the same post after the stuff you bolded:
"You will never get perfect results but convert 2-3 of those results (still brick the bed on 4) and we would be in a position aligned with your "unrealistic" expectations."
thfcsteff
Ralph Coates
Here's a truth.
When it was put to TF post-Villa that our 'last chance of silverware' had gone, he reacted with grudging agreement.
We are still in the Champions League, and as it sits, our potential play-off game would be quite winnable over 2 legs (Quarabag is currently one of them I was told by someone who had put the work in to figure it out).
I am not an idiot, and honestly have to say we would need a shock in excess of Greece winning the Euros to win the CL.
But we ARE still in it.
And as such, the first thing I want the manager to say is that we are still in it!
Of course, he does not actually see us as a Champions League club.
Philosophically he might be right, however we factually are one, and also factually hold a decent record in this season's competition.
Personally, I think getting to QF would be something else (it would also improve us in co-efficiency I think as well as income, etc), but we must never forget that we got to a CL Final with Winks and Sissoko in midfield and our star striker injured for several key matches.
Again, I want our manager to believe we can do anything in a competition until we are actually knocked out of it.
When it was put to TF post-Villa that our 'last chance of silverware' had gone, he reacted with grudging agreement.
We are still in the Champions League, and as it sits, our potential play-off game would be quite winnable over 2 legs (Quarabag is currently one of them I was told by someone who had put the work in to figure it out).
I am not an idiot, and honestly have to say we would need a shock in excess of Greece winning the Euros to win the CL.
But we ARE still in it.
And as such, the first thing I want the manager to say is that we are still in it!
Of course, he does not actually see us as a Champions League club.
Philosophically he might be right, however we factually are one, and also factually hold a decent record in this season's competition.
Personally, I think getting to QF would be something else (it would also improve us in co-efficiency I think as well as income, etc), but we must never forget that we got to a CL Final with Winks and Sissoko in midfield and our star striker injured for several key matches.
Again, I want our manager to believe we can do anything in a competition until we are actually knocked out of it.
No, it's not fair to say a Europa League win and 17th in the league equals to 10th in the league. By that logic teams that won a cup and got relegated shouldn't have got relegated. The standard of team that we played in the Europa for the most part was lower than the majority of teams in the league.
Do you really give that much weight to club statements. They are always going to put in high expectations. Can you imagine the backlash if they stated that they think it will take at least a couple of seasons for us to be competing again?
Finney Is Back
Paul Stewart
It certainly doesn’t equal 10th in the league…. It is in fact better than anything other than winning the league
Bishop
Jimmy McCormick
Its deluded to expect to win all of those games and thats what he said. He actually expects to win them all but accepts that you won't get perfect results. Thats different to saying I expect to win 3 out of 4 home games.
Yes, winning a trophy is better, but it still has no bearing on league position. Winning something doesn't improve your league position.
paxtonwolf
Ron Henry
If we get 4 pts or more from West Ham and Burnley I am with you on that, 1pt or 2pts and we are on the brink of the relegation battle.
Lose both and we are in it and will have to prioritise PL safety over CL Progression
Jurgen the German
Terry Dyson
Someone uttered a phrase at the game on Saturday that I’ve been saying for weeks “this is like watching us in the 90s”. The football is awful and I don’t think Frank is a good fit for the role and for the club. But the players are poor. Our squad is top half/top 8 level at best and that won’t change without heavy investment and good recruitment. I genuinely fear we could go down in the next 2-3 seasons if the recruitment isn’t significantly better than it has been in the last 4-5 years.
SissokoWasGood (BoL)
Steve Carr
It seems like you’re suggesting that last season we were basically Wigan. A bad team that flukes a cup win and struggles in the League, which shows their true level. And if that’s the case we can agree to disagree because I just don’t think that’s it personally. I think we were a good team, deservedly seen as one of the favourites for the Europa, who fell well below our usual station due to unprecedented injuries.
The reason I say we should be able to equal it out to roughly a 10th place performance in the league is because without the Europa, it’s probably where we would have ended up. Unless you think we would have finished 17th with no European football too? In which case I would just massively disagree again.
I’m not sure taking the club’s statement at face value is putting that much weight on it. I’m just calling it like I see it. They sacked manager who won a trophy and said it was a really hard, but right decision to do it. Not the easy decision. Because it would give us the best chance of competing this coming season. They don’t need to say this coming season. They could say we’re at the start of an exciting long term project and they’ve hired a man who’s proven over a course of years to build a culture and elevate a club.
I don’t think for one moment they’d be happy if we finish outside of the European places this year because we’ve set foundations or because we finished 17th last year. I simply don’t believe they thought they’d be punting a season away by sacking Ange and appointing Frank. I think they genuinely thought it was the right appointment to at least get us back to our average normal level, and would then think about how to over perform that level in the following seasons to come.
SissokoWasGood (BoL)
Steve Carr
It absolutely has a bearing on the league position! If we weren’t competing for that trophy we almost certainly would have finished higher in the league.
Another way to look at this is Chelsea finishing 10th and then winning the league under Conte. Was it a fine achievement from Conte? Of course. But it wasn’t like he took Fulham from 10th to 1st. He took a quality squad that had massively under performed the previous season, and had them back at their level and then some because they didn’t have European football to contend with also.
And that’s why I think going too hard on the idea that we finished 17th to be a bit ridiculous. You have to look at the quality of the squad and judge where it should be. It wasn’t the 17th best squad in the league last season, and it isn’t now. There were particular circumstances around why we finished 17th, and I simply don’t believe a club that pushed to bring in Kudus and Simons for big money, got RKM to make sure we were actually covered for Solanke, has basically made sure every back up to the first 11 is a good full international…this is not a bottom half squad. This was not expected to be a foundation setting year without any results. It just wasn’t.
As tough as some of the games since Xmas have been to watch, albeit with some semblance of improvement within games (1st half vs Sunderland and 2nd half vs Villa), my stance in from about late October/November was the assess where we are mid-late February. However, by the end of January results could have already made a decision on TF's position.
January we have a run of winnable games, 5 points from Brentford, Palace and Sunderland is probably about par with where we are, the defeat to Bournemouth makes the West Ham and Burnley games, must not lose games (not that they should be considered that anyway). The CL games, provide additional games and a carrot to dangle to attempt to bring in higher quality players for the here and now, rather than long term prospects.
February brings a tough run of fixtures although, they could also prove to be statement games for our season (ever the optimist...), so providing the results in the PL games beforehand are favourable they can potentially be seen as gimmes, except 22nd Feb, which is a MUST win!
By the time of the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game, hopefully a chance to get some players back, some new players in, and evidence that a clear style of play and improvements from coaching should be evident. If they're not, then I would suspect once we have nothing to play for then a management change would be made.
January we have a run of winnable games, 5 points from Brentford, Palace and Sunderland is probably about par with where we are, the defeat to Bournemouth makes the West Ham and Burnley games, must not lose games (not that they should be considered that anyway). The CL games, provide additional games and a carrot to dangle to attempt to bring in higher quality players for the here and now, rather than long term prospects.
February brings a tough run of fixtures although, they could also prove to be statement games for our season (ever the optimist...), so providing the results in the PL games beforehand are favourable they can potentially be seen as gimmes, except 22nd Feb, which is a MUST win!
By the time of the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game, hopefully a chance to get some players back, some new players in, and evidence that a clear style of play and improvements from coaching should be evident. If they're not, then I would suspect once we have nothing to play for then a management change would be made.
I said they are all winnable games, and they are all games we should have expectations to win. I am aware football doesn't work like that, hence the caveat.
Reality is the entire PL is brick this year, if we did have our brick together, yes we would probably be in top 3 (like Villa), we don't and no, it isn't all on the manager but only winning 7 out of 21 when we have played some historically bad teams is on him.
This conversation is the perfect example of what keeping Ange and Frank has done to this club (and yes, Levy has to take some part of the blame for that), our own fans are bought into such a low fudging bar, that I'm deluded for thinking Spurs could/should beat bottom half PL teams or aim for something more than 8th
braineclipse
Garth Crooks
Turns out he didn't expect that. Which was to me at least really obvious from his post (along with his record of being reasonable on here).
But by all means, keep arguing against straw men.
He needs to make that count.
- He has to take a long look at the best parts of the 2nd half against Villa, the bits against Sunderland and go how do we get 90 mins of that.
- Needs to not over rotate, Tel, Xavi, Odobert have to start, I'd assume RKM as 9 to start, with Solanke getting 20 mins at the end? Paulhinha and Gray, maybe Biss makes a surprise bench appearance? smart move would be play Davies (Udogie to get 20 minutes?) and Spence (Porro has to rest)
The side selection will be restricted, we kind of know the players getting closer to form, the issue is intent, he really needs to set out to dominate this West Ham side, don't give them 20 minutes to knock the ball around and build confidence.
Lose or draw this, and it will be truly toxic (social media is already in full meltdown in last couple of weeks)
braineclipse
Garth Crooks
Agreed. Point was made on the pod about how when we're forced to play with real intent we have looked quite decent, several times.
He needs to find some solutions. If we lose the next two league games (or only get a point from those two) I really struggle to see how there's a way for him to still be here next season. Would take the turnaround of all turnarounds.
I don't think he's here next season regardless.
The issue for him is February (brutal schedule), if he doesn't get something out of the 4 remaining games this month, hard to see him lasting through February, can you imagine if we get tonked and/or put up another dead performance against the Scum home?