Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[Muttley]

I think there has been a bit of hindsight revisionism here. IMO It was only really in the final and the second leg of the Frankfurt qtr final when we did this.... and on both occasions we only really did it after we went 1 goal up.

All I remember is Biss being our best player from the quarter to the final. He wasn't playing to Ange ball instruction either where he was expected to press high. I saw Ange's midfield 3 split left, right and centre many times and hunt together on the press. For me in those final stages of that comp we were way more selective in those tactics. You could possibly be right though. LOL - I won't be going back to watch those dreadful games.

 

[thfcsteff]

I'm a little surprised with @Muttley's view, I think I'm more aligned with @thfcsteff here

For me, we are adrift, certainly from an outside perspective
- Firing Ange was the right thing to do (I'll die on that hill) but it killed a lot of the upside of finally breaking the hoodo re trophies, it put us right back into that Spurs cycle of promise/decent but not great results/reboot that has been the last 30 years expect for the Harry & Poch timeframes
- Levy, good or bad, was a huge part of the club, and the predictability, e.g. if Levy was here and Frank lost the last two games plus say 1 in the next 3, we know what the result would be, now? if Franks stays bottom half of table, what's the decision, dead man walking for half a season?
- Old ownership with new story, do we really know what their vision is, Simon Jordon (yes, let's not have a if you like him conversation) is convinced they want to sell and moving Levy was part of that. Why is the money suddenly available? why not a month before summer window closed? so much unknown. Paratici possibly bailing also says something.
- And we are toxic, we have no connections anymore, no Levy to hate, no Son to love, a decent manager but not one that has people onboard and our rivals are in their best period in a decade.

And that's where I do have some sympathy for Frank, this job is a step up for him and there is way more than squad tactics to fix, where his old role, all of that was in place.

Indeed.

I do want to say that I absolutely hope @Muttley is right with regards to Thomas; as I always say we all benefit if so. And as you’ll have read in the thread I started a week ago, I too have sympathy for where Thomas finds himself, because I am damn sure he did not sign up for all the palavar which has been going on and is still going on above him.
So in that regard, I really, really want him to succeed on both the actual winning of things and style count.

The connections point is huge. It is why I fear the Lewis family might punt for the cheap heartstrings in the summer (as I’ve said, I adore him but don’t think he should come back).

I’ll say this; IF TF makes it through this turmoil, he can pretty much manage anywhere.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think that's my point that people aren't getting. Frank and any manager will have a philosophy. The reactive part to the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition is at the fringe, not the core of their tactics. It's the tweaking that gets best of both worlds.

You seem to talk like Frank being reactive to the opposition is the core of his tactics. It really isn't. It's the last 20% to enable his own philosophy of how he wants his teams to play. I would argue that he hasn't found that formula yet based on what we've seen. It's in there somewhere though and he's waiting for the breakthroughs to happen.

I think we will eventually see Frank imposing his tactics on teams whilst constraining their own tactics. That is why he was hired and what you have to be in this current PL. Unfortunately, the PL has gone way too tactical and is becoming as dull as ditchwater, Even Pep has completely reined in all his free flowing football. It's functional, and Pep will be focusing more on the opposition than ever.

I think it’s pretty simple.
Do you want us to be a counter-attacking side or not?
Not ‘you’ per se, that’s a general ‘you’.
Because currently, I think the ceiling of Frank’s philosophy is to be a ruthlessly efficient counter-attacking side. Sit disciplined in mid to low blocks and strike precisely with a lower volume of overall chances and less possession per match than our opposition.
I harboured this hope that Frank had another tactical destination whereby he’d flower into a coach who took a more Pep (or prime Poch) approach (impose our style with a possession game that pays intelligent respect to the opposition but sees us with the ball more than not). So far I haven’t seen anything to suggest that, and as such, it is as unfair of me to expect it from him as it would’ve been to look for Eriksen from Sissoko.
I am going to try very hard to watch the second-half of the season based on who Frank is rather than what I wish he was. He is still our manager, and that requires support, regardless of personal wishes.

 

[parj]

No one is saying that from what I can see, I think people are talking about there being a balance. (From what I can tell from the boring nonsense of Ange v Frank)

Some people have made a decision on Frank in what is, for me, a small sample size given his Brentford team were fluid and played nice stuff. So be it

As for Iraola, I think he is a good manager but he would be suited to adapt his chaos ball, as exciting as it might be as a neutral, and I rate him. No way he goes to a Liverpool, City or Arsenal and that style is a success without some adaption IMO

I don't think Brentford were ever a proactive fluid team. I always saw them as a more counter attack team utilising long balls.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

I don't think Brentford were ever a proactive fluid team. I always saw them as a more counter attack team utilising long balls.

You can be counter attacking and be fluid, they were very good at times under him.

 

[Raziel]

Genuine question - do you think Iraola is naive?

While question wasn't for me, I think we evaluated Iraola before Frank and left with concerns of injuries, burnout, unsustainable football and if that is true, well done to someone in the club decision making (although we might have had a better first 10-15 games.) Too many comparisons to Bielsa/Ange for my taste.

 

[Bishop]

I don't think Brentford were ever a proactive fluid team. I always saw them as a more counter attack team utilising long balls.

In the Championship where relative to their peers they had a better team they were.