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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

DeanoAustin said:
I don’t really think there is “a guy”. Poch was as close as we got and that was just a bunch of things aligning and a very good and brave manager being one of those elements. Maybe the example of Klopp at Liverpool suggests otherwise but I don’t think there is a messiah out there for us and there are a lot of things wrong at our club.

However, there are some managers who just aren’t up to it. I think it was Carragher who made the point recently that he can’t remember any manager in recent times who was successful at a lower half club playing functional/pragmatic football who was a success when they got a big job. Nuno, Hodgson and Moyes are all good examples of what he’s talking about. That’s why I have major doubts on Frank but I am willing to reserve judgement until he drags us into a relegation fight or until he has a full season.

That said, most of what I’ve seen to date, from the performances to the players’ behaviour to his utterances in press conferences suggest to me that he’s out of his depth.
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It’s such an interesting point, Carragher’s. I’m racking my brains and trying to find the exception to that.

A lot of things aligned with Poch, but I think he also had a special sort of charisma. It was his style of football, but also his style of leadership that could translate well to a higher level. He’s not Ancelotti. And didn’t just give unlimited freedom to experienced players, but he does trust attackers in particular. I remember also reading that Cortesi hired him at Southampton after seeing him on the touch line for Espanyol and knowing then he had something special. It’s actually incredible insight. I wonder what Cortesi is doing now.

Anyway, I am really trying to rack my brains. Who is the pragmatist manager at a mid table club who successfully stepped up to a regular European finisher? And if there isn’t a very good example, why did we decide to try that again? I get that Frank evolved over time to get Brentford into a ‘nicer’ style, but he simply won’t have the same time here. I also think there’s an open question on whether you can change a leaders instincts. When under pressure the real you comes out. If you’re a pragmatist then you’ll be a pragmatist. You won’t suddenly be comfortable going all out just because you have better players, you’ll inherently do what got you to advance to that point in your career.
 
Gutter Boy said:
The club has gone to brick since Simon Felstein left. Maybe getting him back should be our number 1 January transfer target? He and Poch used to work in tandem so well together.
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Have to say, Simon was a MASSIVE loss. Really top guy who absolutely knew his stuff. Really interesting observation...I mean, the path is clear?
 
DeanoAustin said:
I don’t really think there is “a guy”. Poch was as close as we got and that was just a bunch of things aligning and a very good and brave manager being one of those elements. Maybe the example of Klopp at Liverpool suggests otherwise but I don’t think there is a messiah out there for us and there are a lot of things wrong at our club.

However, there are some managers who just aren’t up to it. I think it was Carragher who made the point recently that he can’t remember any manager in recent times who was successful at a lower half club playing functional/pragmatic football who was a success when they got a big job. Nuno, Hodgson and Moyes are all good examples of what he’s talking about. That’s why I have major doubts on Frank but I am willing to reserve judgement until he drags us into a relegation fight or until he has a full season.

That said, most of what I’ve seen to date, from the performances to the players’ behaviour to his utterances in press conferences suggest to me that he’s out of his depth.
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Imo the work that has been done in recent years with recruitment of younger players seems to be an attempt to get another "alignment". Perhaps the Lewis family wanting to invest (pinch of salt until it happens) can be another.

Manager needs to be part of that alignment. I'm not seeing it yet with Frank, but like let's see, give it time. But to me that's also because I don't see a "that guy" available manager to replace him with.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
It’s such an interesting point, Carragher’s. I’m racking my brains and trying to find the exception to that.

A lot of things aligned with Poch, but I think he also had a special sort of charisma. It was his style of football, but also his style of leadership that could translate well to a higher level. He’s not Ancelotti. And didn’t just give unlimited freedom to experienced players, but he does trust attackers in particular. I remember also reading that Cortesi hired him at Southampton after seeing him on the touch line for Espanyol and knowing then he had something special. It’s actually incredible insight. I wonder what Cortesi is doing now.

Anyway, I am really trying to rack my brains. Who is the pragmatist manager at a mid table club who successfully stepped up to a regular European finisher? And if there isn’t a very good example, why did we decide to try that again? I get that Frank evolved over time to get Brentford into a ‘nicer’ style, but he simply won’t have the same time here. I also think there’s an open question on whether you can change a leaders instincts. When under pressure the real you comes out. If you’re a pragmatist then you’ll be a pragmatist. You won’t suddenly be comfortable going all out just because you have better players, you’ll inherently do what got you to advance to that point in your career.
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Agreed on other examples, but also a rather small sample size.

Agreed on the under pressure thing. He's under pressure now so I'll guess we'll see.

The way I see it he's tried to do something similar here to what he did at Brentford to get to a "nicer style". Start with defending, set pieces, then evolve. Perhaps trying to accelerate the timeline here compared to at Brentford. As you say, doing the thing that's gotten him here.

Definitely agree that things aligned when Poch was here. I think it's fair to say that things aligned for Frank at Brentford too.
 
Lemonade Money said:
Stop over analysing, and start over supporting.
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I don't get the over analysis of press conferences to be honest. I said it with Ange, people were just looking to twist things he said that just wasn't there to be criticised and it seems the same is beginning to happen with Frank.

I watched the press conference yesterday and seemed fair and fine to me, nothing screamed out he said that was particularly wrong so surprised to see the reaction on here. I'm not convinced he's the man for the job but that's based solely on what's going on pitchside.

Had we been doing better, Frank could have come out with an identical interview and no one would be taking the slant on it they are now.....
 
DeanoAustin said:
I don’t really think there is “a guy”. Poch was as close as we got and that was just a bunch of things aligning and a very good and brave manager being one of those elements. Maybe the example of Klopp at Liverpool suggests otherwise but I don’t think there is a messiah out there for us and there are a lot of things wrong at our club.

However, there are some managers who just aren’t up to it. I think it was Carragher who made the point recently that he can’t remember any manager in recent times who was successful at a lower half club playing functional/pragmatic football who was a success when they got a big job. Nuno, Hodgson and Moyes are all good examples of what he’s talking about. That’s why I have major doubts on Frank but I am willing to reserve judgement until he drags us into a relegation fight or until he has a full season.

That said, most of what I’ve seen to date, from the performances to the players’ behaviour to his utterances in press conferences suggest to me that he’s out of his depth.
Click to expand...
It’s a good point. It’s hard to shift from being the underdog to the supposed favourite in games. To go from being reactionary to be expected to be proactive.

I said when we got him hopefully he has a plan around how to step up in levels and isn’t a new version of Curbishley
 
harr1984 said:
I don't get the over analysis of press conferences to be honest. I said it with Ange, people were just looking to twist things he said that just wasn't there to be criticised and it seems the same is beginning to happen with Frank.

I watched the press conference yesterday and seemed fair and fine to me, nothing screamed out he said that was particularly wrong so surprised to see the reaction on here. I'm not convinced he's the man for the job but that's based solely on what's going on pitchside.

Had we been doing better, Frank could have come out with an identical interview and no one would be taking the slant on it they are now.....
Click to expand...

Fair enough and I can see that POV. I didn't care for it.
 
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