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Thomas Frank - Former Head Coach

billyiddo said:
I really don't like how Conte gets made out to be some kind of martyr to the cause. He wasn't really saying anything different to what Pochettino was saying with the new house/better furniture comments - two different approaches to saying the club needs to step up, one doing so out of passing the buck/self preservation the other doing so because he wanted to illicit change and be part of that new direction.
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I'm not making him anything but (from what I recall - believe it or not, I don't listen to his press conference every night before going to bed) what, in my opinion, makes Conte's rant stronger is the fact that he didn't spare the players. Pochettino, Mourinho, Espirito Santo and, so far, Frank (Postecoglou's situation is different since the players gave everything for him) never said the players let them down. It's always some vague comments about a lack of ambition from 'the club' or our inability to sign 'better players' when the truth is that, except maybe for Pochettino, they lost the dressing room. The players cost them their job, because they saw losing as an acceptable solution to get rid of a manager they longer liked (or never liked in the first place).

Did Conte want out? Certainly. Did he want to burn all bridges? Quite possibly, although it's hard to think his rant wasn't genuine. He really looked upset when it happened. Was I pleased to see my beloved club portrayed that way? Nossir. But it's not Conte's fault either. The blame should lie at the feet of all the people at the club who took second best for an option and made it part of the club culture.
 
braineclipse said:
I think the good hype men, like Ange, also speak strong truths. I'm definitely with you on preferring the truth and living in reality. But I'm not sure I want more realism over whatever boosts confidence, morale, professionalism.

Although I'm a bit of a nerd for the tactical stuff, the attributes and roles and all that I do actually think the main job of a football manager is to be a leader. Hype, motivation, arm around the shoulder, clear, demanding, listening, all of it.

Obviously the tactical stuff matters a lot, but given a choice between coming short on that and coming short on being a great leader you can always get an assistant or coaches who are good at the tactical stuff. But leadership has to stem from the manager.
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I was talking more about me personally and what I need. From a playing pov I never needed anything from a manager (in an emotional sense) and he fully got everything from me. And from a fan pov I don't need anything either. Press conferences, are in the main, dull affairs.

But as I say....we are all different...so when it comes to a manager dealing with a big squad....there's many variables there ...and bases to be covered.

I think the most successful take it all on their shoulders, but with the way the game is now, there's a thousand things to knock you down, but if you (as the managers are always saying) can cut out the noise, the reality is the results are the defining metric.

What Is sad, is how fans have been weaponised even against their own clubs.
 
braineclipse said:
Not old enough to remember early days Ferguson, and can't say I remember early days Wenger well enough either.

Mourinho came in with buckets of confidence and had no problems expressing it. All three had no issues glossing over or not telling the full truth about things.
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I remember at the time thinking Frank didn’t come across as confident at all and looked nervous in his first press conference as our head coach.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I was talking more about me personally and what I need. From a playing pov I never needed anything from a manager (in an emotional sense) and he fully got everything from me. And from a fan pov I don't need anything either. Press conferences, are in the main, dull affairs.

But as I say....we are all different...so when it comes to a manager dealing with a big squad....there's many variables there ...and bases to be covered.

I think the most successful take it all on their shoulders, but with the way the game is now, there's a thousand things to knock you down, but if you (as the managers are always saying) can cut out the noise, the reality is the results are the defining metric.

What Is sad, is how fans have been weaponised even against their own clubs.
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Oh wow, I didn't realise you was THE Ricky Villa:oops: Fantastic to have you on here....
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I was talking more about me personally and what I need. From a playing pov I never needed anything from a manager (in an emotional sense) and he fully got everything from me. And from a fan pov I don't need anything either. Press conferences, are in the main, dull affairs.

But as I say....we are all different...so when it comes to a manager dealing with a big squad....there's many variables there ...and bases to be covered.

I think the most successful take it all on their shoulders, but with the way the game is now, there's a thousand things to knock you down, but if you (as the managers are always saying) can cut out the noise, the reality is the results are the defining metric.

What Is sad, is how fans have been weaponised even against their own clubs.
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No disagreements on what you personally need 😉

Everything gets polarised these days, the only way to create real unity amongst fans is results and winning things over time. But I also think playing a more attractive style of football does something to unify. Nothing quite like being bored and disappointed to create a bad mood that gets easily wesponised.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Dour isn't the problem IMO. Being dour is fine - you don't have to be Mr Charisma in front of the camera. You just kind of need to avoid pitfalls and talking down expectations or talking up your rivals are two of them.

Ferguson was never particularly engaging with the press, nor was Wenger, nor is Pep really IMO. Mourinho, Klopp and Clough were insanely good with the press. With Klopp, I thought he was brilliant for The Dippers because he really got that club, much and all as I hate them, and pretty much always knew when to say the right thing. All that would have been useless of course unless he was a bloody good manager which he is.
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But the managers you mention have all been extremely successful.....even if they might be dour, outspoken, charismatic, uncharismatic .....as at the end of the day results carry you thru.

Managers, not so good, make mistakes, misstep, are criticized, picked on....simply as they don't have the results to middle finger everyone and everything
 
braineclipse said:
No disagreements on what you personally need 😉

Everything gets polarised these days, the only way to create real unity amongst fans is results and winning things over time. But I also think playing a more attractive style of football does something to unify. Nothing quite like being bored and disappointed to create a bad mood that gets easily wesponised.
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The problem though appears to be the bar is higher than that....unless you are winning/perfect everything and everyone is brick.

(Not saying all fans (humans) are like that but definitely a growing percentage)
 
Truth is that only pochettino has had good results at cultivating and coaching lesser players with some result. However perhaps his own doing or the clubs, the recruitment under him towards the end was shocking.
 
Gazza said:
Truth is that only pochettino has had good results at cultivating and coaching lesser players with some result. However perhaps his own doing or the clubs, the recruitment under him towards the end was shocking.
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Poch was great a nurturing and as he got into the role he figured out each player's runway. Some like Mason plateua'd just below Poch needed but the pair of them were incredibly professional about their separation. Other players that he worked with had incredibly high ceilings.

I know this isn't for this thread, but it's always worth thinking about which players in our current squad would an incoming manager look at and think about the incredibly high ceiling they have. Xavi and Gray are the 2 that spring to mind that might become a Dembele or Eriksen.
 
Muttley said:
Poch was great a nurturing and as he got into the role he figured out each player's runway. Some like Mason plateua'd just below Poch needed but the pair of them were incredibly professional about their separation. Other players that he worked with had incredibly high ceilings.

I know this isn't for this thread, but it's always worth thinking about which players in our current squad would an incoming manager look at and think about the incredibly high ceiling they have. Xavi and Gray are the 2 that spring to mind that might become a Dembele or Eriksen.
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Bergval also, I even think there is a spot for Udogie, Porro too.
 
Mikey10 said:
www.theguardian.com

Bring on the old guard to beat the drop: can Ange’s recall be right twist for Spurs? | Max Rushden

If Tottenham are waiting for Pochettino part two, then season three of Postecoglou might bring the right survival vibes
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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I wonder if he regrets those “season 3 is always better than season 2” comments? Yeah and sometimes they kill off the main character Ange. I wish he had just quit while he was ahead. It was the ultimate mic drop moment to say he always win in his second season only to actually deliver on that statement.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I wonder if he regrets those “season 3 is always better than season 2” comments? Yeah and sometimes they kill off the main character Ange. I wish he had just quit while he was ahead. It was the ultimate mic drop moment to say he always win in his second season only to actually deliver on that statement.
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Behind his attitude and excuses he should have just quit you are quite right. He was very arrogant towards the end of his tenure and quite annoying with his stupid post match loss interviews.
 
braineclipse said:
I think the good hype men, like Ange, also speak strong truths. I'm definitely with you on preferring the truth and living in reality. But I'm not sure I want more realism over whatever boosts confidence, morale, professionalism.

Although I'm a bit of a nerd for the tactical stuff, the attributes and roles and all that I do actually think the main job of a football manager is to be a leader. Hype, motivation, arm around the shoulder, clear, demanding, listening, all of it.

Obviously the tactical stuff matters a lot, but given a choice between coming short on that and coming short on being a great leader you can always get an assistant or coaches who are good at the tactical stuff. But leadership has to stem from the manager.
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Yes, leadership.
The manager needs to have a real aura about them such that when they walk into any room everyone turns and respects them and awaits what they have to say.
Some managers do this through fear and punishment, the best do this through positivity and aura.

The tactics have to be "not crap" but more important is getting every player to fully believe and to fully give you everything on the pitch, which is achieved through good leadership, good connections, positivity belief positivity belief.
 
Robbo said:
No one in their right mind would quit at that moment, knowing the sack and a hefty pay off was just around the corner.
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I completely agree, the payoff was too much. Conte though was a bloke though …. Mouthed off some home truths and then buggered off. He even took Chelsea to the cleaners.
 
Muttley said:
Don't agree. That speech has been had by and with every manager along this path. They've all said the Ra, Ra things people want to hear. Like so many fans, I'm sick of the lip service at this point. Frank even tried in subtle ways to have the honesty conversation but got shot down. That is OUR club's cultural and denial problem, not his. The new manager needs to also talk about the boundaries of being a Spurs manager. Hopefully he would also say that is a talented bunch that our not reaching their potential and talk about his own expectations on them to find new levels.

I want the new manager to start with the honest conversation. I'll respect him more if he talks about the potential and the hard work. I'll respect him more if he lays down some changing room boundaries and talks about the minimum he expects from every player and coach.

You can summarise Spurs to one posters comment the other day "I see Muani has come on for his weekly 20 min jog". We've watched this with so many of our players, proving at least to me that the performances won't change until we stop making this losing culture perfectly acceptable. Our players do things that they just know would never be acceptable at other clubs.

It's sort of why I'm intrigued by De Zerbi. Do we need an arm round the shoulder type or are we now done with that? We've talked a lot about he stylistic fit with the football philosophy. We obviously need that. However, we do need to think about the personality type we need. Ultimately, Poch's players played for him until they didn't. Then it turned ugly. It's turned ugly very quickly for every manager since. That is a club cultural problem. That is to do with the players not having our club charter in their belief system. It's because Tavistock/ENIC allow that culture in their organisations. So we need a motivator. We need a culture obsessed manager and we need a major tactician in the style of football we want to play. Would de Zerbi create that siege mentality we see at other clubs with managers like Pep, Arteta and Emery?
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All in-house, yes.
To the media? Strong words underlined with how 'big' we are.


And sorry, whoever comes in for these vital games, so much smoke and glory up their arses (and to the world) that they believe they're prime Real Madrid (avec Ramos!). We don't have the time at this moment for honesty IMOI, we need sorcery and old-school confidence tricking to get us out of trouble.

If you think I am accepting 'losing culture' then you're mistaken. This is now a very, very strategic and vital moment; instant performance requires instant confidence. As for Frank, look, why can't we all accept that he is a good guy and good coach for whom this club was a step too far. It's not an insult; Mourinho and Conte couldn't handle it! It is, however, a fact. His approach from the get-go was reductive and somewhat tone-deaf, dressed as being honest. I hope he finds a club and job next which suits his talents, because he's obviously very good as long as the structure around him is solid (which gets to why I said I felt sorry for him with the churn above).
 
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