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The Overlap - some interesting comments from Ange

Bullet said:
Some of you are forgetting how bad the games were under Ange. One that really sticks in my memory is our game vs Tamworth in the FA Cup, from the BBC article: "Tottenham turned beating National League Tamworth into a monumental task and came close to abject humiliation before reaching the FA Cup fourth round after extra time.

Ange Postecoglou's side were mind-numbingly poor in normal time at the Lamb Ground, then required a scrambled own goal from Tamworth's Nathan Tshikuna to break the deadlock after 101 minutes."
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It’s a cup game. Do you remember all of the brick ones under Poch? Losing to Colchester, needing a replay against Rochdale, needing a replay against Newport County, scraping past Barnsley, conceding 3 to Wycombe at home only to be saved by Sonny etc.

There’s so much to criticise Ange for that pulling out a one-off cup game — a cup that’s loved because of it’s ability to produce those upsets, like last season’s glamour club Crystal Palace suffered 6 weeks ago — is just a really weird line to go down.

Bullet said:
I think winning the Europa League will become more normalised for Prem teams in coming years. Last year the final was 2 Prem teams, and I assume Prem teams will come to dominate the competition.

One could argue it is easier for a Prem team to win the Europa League, than it is to win the League Cup because in the latter you usually have to beat City / Arse / Pool.
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I find this incredibly sad too. Why can’t you just enjoy your club achieving something? Why the constant comparisons and asterisks added? Who the fudge cares what else happens in football? Tottenham won the Europa League in 2025 and that will never, ever change.
 
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Raziel said:
Ange is like Ramos (with Ange getting a much more prestigious trophy), gave us a trophy, a great night and will be in history for that, will I look back fondly on their time other than the trophy? no, Ange gave us 10 games of real hope that something had changed, that maybe we got this one right, we didn't, and I'm grateful we got something relevant out of the experiment, but in the end, it didn't work (now, would we/club have accepted that 2 years knowing we would get a trophy? probably .. but end is still the same)
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Ange fudging finished 5th in his first season on the back of selling our best ever player. He got us into the Europa League to win it.
 
Bullet said:
1) Agree, both mismanaged the squad. Both managers are poor. One might be better than the other, but both are poor and not worth our time

2) Beating that misfiring MNU team was easier than beating that CHE team with Drogba et al
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'Not worth our time' yet here some folks are, desperate to try and negate what Postecoglu achieved with whatever metric can be conjured to 'convince us' winning the Europa League was a naff affair.

@Raziel as eager as you are to equate Ramos and the League Cup with Ange and the Europa Cup (laughable in my opinion BTW), there is one similarity. Both lost massive amounts of goals during their time. In fact, let's leave Ange losing Kane alone for this one and look at Ramos. His 'reward' was to lose both Berbatov and Keane in a single summer; over 50 goals! Still, he was given Frasier Campbell eh...
 
tommysvr said:
It’s a cup game. Do you remember all of the brick ones under Poch? Losing to Colchester, needing a replay against Rochdale, needing a replay against Newport County, scraping past Barnsley, conceding 3 to Wycombe at home only to be saved by Sonny etc.

There’s so much to criticise Ange for that pulling out a one-off cup game — a cup that’s loved because of it’s ability to produce those upsets, like last season’s glamour club Crystal Palace suffered 6 weeks ago — is just a really weird line to go down.



I find this incredibly sad too. Why can’t you just enjoy your club achieving something? Why the constant comparisons and asterisks added? Who the fudge cares what else happens in football? Tottenham won the Europa League in 2025 and that will never, ever change.
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If some people are honest with themselves, winning the Europa League was not an ideal outcome; they had to admit that he delivered on a promise. There again, they would have good company with our board and football directorship, who I am sure squirmed when he did it.
 
Bullet said:
I think winning the Europa League will become more normalised for Prem teams in coming years. Last year the final was 2 Prem teams, and I assume Prem teams will come to dominate the competition.

One could argue it is easier for a Prem team to win the Europa League, than it is to win the League Cup because in the latter you usually have to beat City / Arse / Pool.
…
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Yeah, since the EL was defanged by not permitting CL teams who finished 3rd in the group stages to get a 2nd chance in the consolation cup it’s surely easier for English teams to win. As they’re guaranteed to not face any of top 5 PL clubs nor the likes of PSG, Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern who are the only other sides in Europe who could win the PL.

Since the turn of the century a third of UEFA Cup / Europa Leagues were won by teams that had dropped down from the Champions League.


And nearly half the finalists were CL dropouts.

2000 CL v CL
2001 UC v UC
2002 CL v CL
2003 CL v UC
2004 UC v CL
2005 UC v CL
2006 UC v UC
2007 UC v UC
2008 UC v CL
2009 CL v CL
2010 CL v EL
2011 EL v CL
2012 EL v EL
2013 CL v CL
2014 EL v CL
2015 CL v EL
2016 EL v CL
2017 CL v EL
2018 EL v CL
2019 EL v EL
2020 EL v CL
2021 EL v CL
2022 EL v CL
2023 CL v EL
2024 EL v EL
 
SteveAWOL said:
Yeah, since the EL was defanged by not permitting CL teams who finished 3rd in the group stages to get a 2nd chance in the consolation cup it’s surely easier for English teams to win. As they’re guaranteed to not face any of top 5 PL clubs nor the likes of PSG, Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern who are the only other sides in Europe who could win the PL.

Since the turn of the century a third of UEFA Cup / Europa Leagues were won by teams that had dropped down from the Champions League.


And nearly half the finalists were CL dropouts.

2000 CL v CL
2001 UC v UC
2002 CL v CL
2003 CL v UC
2004 UC v CL
2005 UC v CL
2006 UC v UC
2007 UC v UC
2008 UC v CL
2009 CL v CL
2010 CL v EL
2011 EL v CL
2012 EL v EL
2013 CL v CL
2014 EL v CL
2015 CL v EL
2016 EL v CL
2017 CL v EL
2018 EL v CL
2019 EL v EL
2020 EL v CL
2021 EL v CL
2022 EL v CL
2023 CL v EL
2024 EL v EL
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And?
 
thfcsteff said:
If some people are honest with themselves, winning the Europa League was not an ideal outcome; they had to admit that he delivered on a promise. There again, they would have good company with our board and football directorship, who I am sure squirmed when he did it.
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I find it really strange how so many football fans (not just ours) dismiss trophies that are not the Premier League or the Champions League. It’s mind boggling.

To win any trophy is a magnificent achievement and takes balls as well as skill. Anyone who has played the game, even at a reasonable level, should know that. When I listen to people like Neville, Keane, Carragher, Butt, Scholes, Wright and so on (yeah I listen to Stick to Football a bit), these lads have won multiple PLs and CLs between them. Yet they have the utmost respect for anyone who wins any trophy be it a League Cup or even lower level leagues in England. That’s because winning things is bloody hard to do.

If the PL and CL are the only things worth winning and the only things that carry any weight of achievement, we’ve won 2 trophies in almost 150 years and none since 1961. It’s a nonsense and disrespectful view IMO.

Say what you want about Ange. I thought, and still think, he was very naive to say “I always win things in my second year”. I didn’t like how he binned off the league. But he won us a trophy, the second most prestigious one in Europe. That’s a hell of an achievement and etches him forever into our history.
 
thfcsteff said:
If some people are honest with themselves, winning the Europa League was not an ideal outcome; they had to admit that he delivered on a promise. There again, they would have good company with our board and football directorship, who I am sure squirmed when he did it.
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I get the impression you think some people actually hate Ange? Maybe some do, but I think the majority of the complaints are really from those who didn't think last season in the league was acceptable. The EL win is kind of besides the point for them (I consider myself one of those people). It was a great triumph, an accomplishment, it got the flipping monkey off our backs, but that wasn't enough in my view to save him considering how poorly he managed the league campaign

I'll accept that not everyone agrees but I'm always a league first person. It's where you can really measure your quality on a levelled footing against everyone else. No excuses accepted, 38 games, you play everyone home and away. I want to be the best and to be the best for that means winning the league, not finishing top 4 but finishing first, that's what I want to see.

I always say I'm old school as I don't even want to win the CL without first winning the league the previous or the same season. It would absolutely mean less to me if we were to win it without also being PL champions. Yes even in 2019 I felt that. I'd obviously happily have won it but that triumph wouldn't have rang through the same as if we had won the PL the year previously and then went on the conquer Europe. I want domination and the league campaign is the only way to satisfy that demand for me.
 
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Bishop said:
I get the impression you think some people actually hate Ange? Maybe some do, but I think the majority of the complaints are really from those who didn't think last season in the league was acceptable. The EL win is kind of besides the point for them (I consider myself one of those people). It was a great triumph, an accomplishment, it got the flipping monkey off our backs, but that wasn't enough in my view to save him considering how poorly he managed the league campaign

I'll accept that not every agrees but I'm always a league first person. It's where you can really measure your quality on a levelled footing against everyone else. No excuses accepted, 38 games, you play everyone home and away. I want to be the best and to be the best for that means win ing the league, not finishing top 4 but finishing first, that's what I want to see. I always say I'm old school as I don't even want to win the CL without first winning the league the previous or the same season. It would absolutely mean less to me if we were to win it without also being PL champions. Yes even in 2019 I felt that. I'd obviously happily have won it but that triumph would have rang through the same as if we had won the PL the year previously and then went on the conquer Europe. I want domination and the league campaign is the only way to satisfy that demand for me.
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I see the league as a manager's day job, that's what ultimately they will be assessed against, it was for Ange and it was for Frank. I love a cup win, but I accept it's a combination of luck, skill, circumstance and the draw that combines to get you to win one.
Being a good league team bleeds into getting deeper in the cups, as we've seen there is little bleed from being a cup team into being a good league team.
 
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Bishop said:
I get the impression you think some people actually hate Ange? Maybe some do, but I think the majority of the complaints are really from those who didn't think last season in the league was acceptable. The EL win is kind of besides the point for them (I consider myself one of those people). It was a great triumph, an accomplishment, it got the flipping monkey off our backs, but that wasn't enough in my view to save him considering how poorly he managed the league campaign

I'll accept that not everyone agrees but I'm always a league first person. It's where you can really measure your quality on a levelled footing against everyone else. No excuses accepted, 38 games, you play everyone home and away. I want to be the best and to be the best for that means winning the league, not finishing top 4 but finishing first, that's what I want to see.

I always say I'm old school as I don't even want to win the CL without first winning the league the previous or the same season. It would absolutely mean less to me if we were to win it without also being PL champions. Yes even in 2019 I felt that. I'd obviously happily have won it but that triumph wouldn't have rang through the same as if we had won the PL the year previously and then went on the conquer Europe. I want domination and the league campaign is the only way to satisfy that demand for me.
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Understood.

Is there a Spurs supporter who believes the league season last season was acceptable? Do you think Postecoglu himself thought it was acceptable?

There was a clear choice available to him in February. With the league done, with injuries piling up, he made a call as to how he might be abkle to achieve something from the season. Where I think many (perhaps yourself too) are getting it wrong, is in thinking he did this lightly. he pretty much knew the gamble was going to cost him his job AND reputation. It was spectacular employment of our famed Latin phrase. He dared, he did, yet all we ever hear is what he didn’t do, how unglamorously he won the trophy, and how it was a ‘lesser’ trophy anyway.

If you’re waiting for this football club to dominate the league, I’d suggest you pray for some horrendous wealth fund to come along and buy us, because as you well know, we have not won the league since before most of us have been born, and when we DID look like we would under Poch, we never gave him quite what he needed and then many proceeded to cheer from the rafters as ‘the Winner’ was brought in and he was sacked (for a league position we’d be begging for today).

Your CL comment is telling.
I grew up adoring that trophy, from the 70s.
I always always dreamt of seeing us win it, indeed, I always felt we stood a better chance.
You want a linear ramp up; I want glory wherever we can get it, doing things (when possible) the right way.

BTW, you’ve stated your views several times on Postecoglu, and each time I get them. Do you understand mine? Do you acknowledge that there is a world where the unquantifiable energy bred by success within a group could possibly have catapulted us forward? Not looking for agreement (we won’t have that) just interested to know if you can even conceive of that possibility, or is that an intangible you refuse to acknowledge/
 
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