The Goon Thread

[greatwhitenorf]

Wouldn't have happened the other way 'round, would it?

Still, crushing moral defeat. Interesting that when this game was first scheduled a month ago, it looked an absolute banker. Then it got bumped for cup play and they turn up after a proper **** scalping at Chelsea and they're lucky to take a point away. It's setting up nicely now for another crushing cup disaster.

 

[a spur from swansea]

I know my hate blinds me, but the ref calling off the game when a Swansea player is running to a 1:1 with the keeper?

Really, not suspicious in the least?

He's a grade A cnut that ref.......but Sky sports news timed it........and he played the allocated injury time plus the time swansea scored in the 90th minute as well. It didn't help the cause that Crystal Palace were done by Saudi Sportswashing Machine on saturday,where the ref played on till a Saudi Sportswashing Machine attack came to an end and they scored..... Pullis said it was over the allocated extra time,not a happy man

 

[Modric THFC]

@101greatgoals: Paul Scholes lays into Arsenal & Jack Wheelchair on Sky Sports after Swansea draw =D>

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/p...-Wheelchair-on-sky-sports-after-swansea-draw/ …

[video=youtube;nlhMHQ8h5LA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlhMHQ8h5LA[/video]

The Wheelchair thing is spot on. Neville would never say that about him with his England connection.
proper link to it now that thats one gone.
[video=youtube;LLGUrLXAjA0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLGUrLXAjA0[/video]

 

[indianspur]

just like Ferguson, it looks like Wenger is going to leave behind an average squad of players who he has got a lot out of but any new manager will have a very difficult time in doing the same.

 

[SUIYHA]

just like Ferguson, it looks like Wenger is going to leave behind an average squad of players who he has got a lot out of but any new manager will have a very difficult time in doing the same.

I don't think things are anywhere near as bad at Arsenal. Players like Valencia, Nani, Young etc were always competent but never considered in the elite bracket of their position in the Premiership, so there was always the risk they'd perform to an average level under an average manager. They were there to supplement the real stars. Those that were in that elite bracket, the likes of Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Giggs, Van Persie etc are all clearly well past their best and age catching up on them was always a matter of time. Some of the young players that looked like they had potential under Ferguson (Cleverly, Jones, Smalling and Wellbeck) have turned out not to. The only genuinely top class player that Moyes inherited who is still at a good age is Rooney. Maybe I'm a little harsh on Van Persie as he's been injured a lot this season.

At Arsenal, even if none of their latest generation of youth team players (Sanogo, Gnabry, Zelalem etc) turn out to be good enough, the likes of Wheelchair, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Szczesny stagnate and don't improve over the next couple of years, and the supplementary players (Podolski, Flamini, Giroud etc) all regress under a new manager, the - I'd still say that in Mertesacker, Koscielny, Ramsey, Cazorla, Ozil and Walcott they've got a strong enough spine of players who are all still at or before their peak that have proven themselves to be amongst the best players in their position in the league.

Sadly, they now also appear to have money to spend. I think we really missed the chance in the previous two seasons to overtake them but it's going to be hard now as, barring a major **** up, the foundations are there for more long term stability in the top 4.

 

[indianspur]

I don't think things are anywhere near as bad at Arsenal. Players like Valencia, Nani, Young etc were always competent but never considered in the elite bracket of their position in the Premiership, so there was always the risk they'd perform to an average level under an average manager. They were there to supplement the real stars. Those that were in that elite bracket, the likes of Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Giggs, Van Persie etc are all clearly well past their best and age catching up on them was always a matter of time. Some of the young players that looked like they had potential under Ferguson (Cleverly, Jones, Smalling and Wellbeck) have turned out not to. The only genuinely top class player that Moyes inherited who is still at a good age is Rooney. Maybe I'm a little harsh on Van Persie as he's been injured a lot this season.

At Arsenal, even if none of their latest generation of youth team players (Sanogo, Gnabry, Zelalem etc) turn out to be good enough, the likes of Wheelchair, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Szczesny stagnate and don't improve over the next couple of years, and the supplementary players (Podolski, Flamini, Giroud etc) all regress under a new manager, the - I'd still say that in Mertesacker, Koscielny, Ramsey, Cazorla, Ozil and Walcott they've got a strong enough spine of players who are all still at or before their peak that have proven themselves to be amongst the best players in their position in the league.

Sadly, they now also appear to have money to spend. I think we really missed the chance in the previous two seasons to overtake them but it's going to be hard now as, barring a major **** up, the foundations are there for more long term stability in the top 4.

I didnt see anyone predict that title winning Man Utd under Ferguson would finish the following season outside the top 4 and most likely 6th or 7th under the new boss. United won the title with this same group you now dismiss as not being as good as Arsanals squad. We shall see, but if Wenger goes at the end of this season I think whoever takes over will have a mighty job getting the same level of performances out of these players.

 

[Enzo Francescoli]

Can anyone explain how both Gibbs and Oxlade Chamberlain played last night?
Surely if Gibbs had the red rescinded then that red should have been applied to the correct offending player retrospectively and also the 3 match ban, or can it not be applied retrospectively because technically what the ref saw didn't actually happen, this could stray into some strange philosophical ground.

 

[Baleforce]

gibbs was rescinded as he was innocent

Ox was rescinded as by the letter of the law his handball attempt should not have been a red card

 

[Enzo Francescoli]

gibbs was rescinded as he was innocent

Ox was rescinded as by the letter of the law his handball attempt should not have been a red card

Cheers. I've just read the rule and intent cannot be taken into account, WALOB, Chamberlain would surely not have attempted the handball had he belived it were going wide. But as you say, letter of the law.
Same old Arsenal.......... W@!#$&s.

 

[Neymar]

The problem with Arsenal isn’t the “character” of the players. Nor is it Wenger. The funny thing is, the fans don’t even see the irony of it all.

As football fans (in general), we’ve been complaining about rising ticket prices, the degree to which player’s wages have risen, and the “unfairness” of Sheik Mansour’s and Abramovic’s billions.

Yet, here we have a manager, in Wenger, who seems to be the one manager in top level football, who stands against these aspects of modern football. The one manager who hasn’t looked to deplete his club’s finances so that he could stack his cv.

And what do we (as football fans) do when he isn’t performing at the same level as the billionaire backed Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea? We condemn him for not spending £50m on Falcao and putting him on 200k a week, to plug a hole in the team.

If we (again, as football fans) are going to condemn a manager for not buying a 50m striker on 200k, I just don’t see how we can complain that ticket prices should be lower by any significant amount. Nor can I see how we can complain about the wages of football players, when we’ve been the ones demanding that they earn those salaries. And nor do I see how we can show contempt towards the likes of Chelsea, when we are demanding that our clubs do the same.

 

[jurgen lineker]

i disagree with the overall sentiments of your post tbh, although i can understand why you (and many others) would see it like you do.

basically, i think arsenal are a team with a simlar stature to liverpool and us. ie. they are smaller than Emirates Marketing Project, chelsea, man utd. and in europe, the likes of barcelona and bayern are bigger than them.
.

You may disagree but the evidence is all there. There are numerous examples of Wenger’s naivety regarding tactics deployed in big games, the latest being his decision to play Cazorla in a deep lying role against Chelsea. He does not have the pace, strength or defensive quality to play in such a role, it did not work against us and it was even more of a disaster versus Chelsea on Sunday. He has also for a number of seasons failed to address their soft centre, to this very day it’s still a problem that teams take advantage of, for whatever reason he refuses to address this problem which is why they will more than likely not achieve anything of note in the foreseeable future.

However, my original post was not predominantly based on the above, I base my opinion more or less on Arsenal’s uninspiring record in the Champions League more than anything else. I regard Wenger like I do a tennis player that has won numerous Masters titles but is without a Grand Slam; good but not great.

The strongest team does not always win the Champions League but the best tactician normally does. Generally speaking, money wins you the League; tactics win you the Champions League. Mancini’s record at both Inter and Emirates Marketing Project are great illustrations of this. Great domestically where he spent exorbitant sums of money that led to trouncing lesser teams in the process, but when it came to the CL where he was up against teams of a similar calibre and where tactics must come in to play he failed miserably. Whilst you may forgive Arsenal’s failure to win a league title in recent seasons due to the money that has been spent by certain clubs, you cannot forgive the fact that he has only managed one Champions League final in 18 seasons, especially when you consider the top-level teams that he had at his disposal for the best part of a decade.

Wenger has had success in the league but has had no success in the Champions League, to be considered amongst the best there needs to be a balance between the two, both are difficult to win and no doubt both are fantastic accomplishments but having success in one competition and no success in the other will signify a particular weakness in a manager’s armoury. Being successful in both points to a manager that has no flaws. Wenger has obvious flaws and therefore, imo, cannot really be regarded amongst the very best managers in the game.

Just to clarify, I do think highly of Wenger, I respect his philosophy and what he has achieved at Arsenal, I just don’ regard him, as I just said above, amongst the best in the game.

 

[Superted]

The Wheelchair thing is spot on. Neville would never say that about him with his England connection.
proper link to it now that thats one gone.
[video=youtube;LLGUrLXAjA0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLGUrLXAjA0[/video]

Sad thing is, we're as devoid of characters and leaders as Arsenal are.

 

[AuroRaman]

Sad thing is, we're as devoid of characters and leaders as Arsenal are.

It's actually a bit embarrassing that we're using it as a stick to bait them with. Every single poster on this board would rather be in their position.

I'm all for banter and I'll always support my team fully, but seriously!

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

[video=youtube;3H_ADewdzM4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H_ADewdzM4[/video]

Haha, oh my f@ckin GHod! If ever something like this gets done for a spurs player (especially one as sh@t as chesney) then I'm giving up! Wtf!!!!!

 

[Neymar]

lol i think its alright tbh.

but im with you Gazza in that i think hes crap too. I also think de gea is crap too. I have absolutely no idea how arsenal and man utd fans could think those two are any good. Don't get me wrong, they could well turn out to be top keepers in the future, but at the moment i think the likes of cech and lloris are miles ahead.

 

[SUIYHA]

I didnt see anyone predict that title winning Man Utd under Ferguson would finish the following season outside the top 4 and most likely 6th or 7th under the new boss. United won the title with this same group you now dismiss as not being as good as Arsanals squad. We shall see, but if Wenger goes at the end of this season I think whoever takes over will have a mighty job getting the same level of performances out of these players.

I don't think anyone thought Man Utd would do this badly this year. But there were warning signs there last year for sure. They seemed to grind out results through efficiency, willpower, determination and the fear factor they generated in the opposition, they didn't thrash teams nearly as often as Man Utd sides had done in the past. There were a lot of 1-0s and 2-0s, especially in the second half of the season. I wouldn't say they were a one man team, but many games did seem to rely upon the individual brilliance of Van Persie. And it was picked up on at the time:

http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/tacticsandanalysis/id/916?cc=5739

http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2013/1/30/3932352/manchester-united-title-favourites-weaknesses


The difference with Arsenal is that they've played some outstanding football at times this season. I don't think there's one player who could get injured/completely lose form and it would ruin the entire team. They are going through a poor spell now because they've had a tough run of games in which a lot of key players have been injured and their manager has made some big tactical ****-ups, both of which have destroyed confidence amongst a group of players who already notorious for having no mental strength and responding badly to pressure. There are a lot of talented players in that squad, which is why they played so well in the first half of the season. Mind you, only a handful of their players would make City's team, but to think there would be a Moyes style collapse of this team if Wenger left is wishful thinking at best.

 

[Raziel]

The problem with Arsenal isn’t the “character” of the players. Nor is it Wenger. The funny thing is, the fans don’t even see the irony of it all.

As football fans (in general), we’ve been complaining about rising ticket prices, the degree to which player’s wages have risen, and the “unfairness” of Sheik Mansour’s and Abramovic’s billions.

Yet, here we have a manager, in Wenger, who seems to be the one manager in top level football, who stands against these aspects of modern football. The one manager who hasn’t looked to deplete his club’s finances so that he could stack his cv.

And what do we (as football fans) do when he isn’t performing at the same level as the billionaire backed Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea? We condemn him for not spending £50m on Falcao and putting him on 200k a week, to plug a hole in the team.

If we (again, as football fans) are going to condemn a manager for not buying a 50m striker on 200k, I just don’t see how we can complain that ticket prices should be lower by any significant amount. Nor can I see how we can complain about the wages of football players, when we’ve been the ones demanding that they earn those salaries. And nor do I see how we can show contempt towards the likes of Chelsea, when we are demanding that our clubs do the same.

Disagree, the problem with the Scum is not a 50m striker or **** wages (they actually overpay on wages)

The problem is Wenger allows season to go by without address obvious weaknesses, and has made a team a pet project to prove something about youth players. The guys inability to realize his keeper is/has/always will be ****, they need a real DM and another striker option (and no Wallnut is not a striker)

Take Scum's team this year +Lloris, Sandro & Soldado (Soldado would have scored hatful's for them) and they would have won the title. All three are probably on less wages than half the Scum side, and only one above 20M (not up front).

 

[Neymar]

but football doesn't work like that. arsenal can't just buy lloris, sandro and soldado and garuntee that these guys will be succesful. for every lloris, theres a gomes. for every sandro, theres a denilson (who was comparable to sandro as a youngster). and for every soldado, well.... theres a soldado.

and to be honest, even with those three relatively on form, i still think arsenal would be some distance from winning the title. and even if we are to accept that those three are better than what arsenal already have (which is debateable), the improvements wouldnt be that big.

and i disagree that they need a real dm. what even is a "real dm"? and a lot of the top sides don't even play with one of those anyway. and i'm sure some arsenal fans would argue flamini is one. what they really need is a billionaire owner (if they want to have players of the calibre of city's and chelsea's) . basically, they need a better set of players overall. not anything specific like a "real dm".

 

[Baleforce]

you can't assume absolutes, but clearly, you are not gonna win the league with sneezy in goal, and it would be relatively trivial to improve on him

Wengers determination to give players a chance to improve is admirable, but there comes a time when you have to accept they are not good enough and move them on

 

[jurgen lineker]

The problem is Wenger allows season to go by without address obvious weaknesses, and has made a team a pet project to prove something about youth players. The guys inability to realize his keeper is/has/always will be ****, they need a real DM and another striker option (and no Wallnut is not a striker)
.

Exactly this, it was and has been for quite some time blindingly apparent that the entire spine of their team needed upgrading/altering, so what does he do in the summer? He goes and spends £40m on Ozil. Absurd. As gifted as Ozil is, he was not necessarily required. The priority in the summer for them is a striker followed by a centre mid that has the ability to impose himself on the opposition. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when a player that has been injured since Christmas has completed the most tackles in the Arsenal squad.