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The Goon Thread - Officially Second In A One Horse Race

Also on Ozil, if anyone wants to see what this disgustingly rich footballer does with his money have a google for Ozil charity work.
 
galeforce said:
Not all footballers are on big money, not even all PL footballers, and without knowing what peoples outgoings are you can't make judgement based on income alone.

It's not always down to the billionaire owners either, in some cases they are merely owners of an investment fund with a large shareholding rather than traditional owners. Berkshire Hathaway own a load of shares in Apple, but it's not down to Warren Buffet to stick his hand into his pocket is it.

I may have misunderstood but hasn't Ozil merely asked for assurances as to where the money saved on wages will be used, rather than outright refusing?
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That's a fair point on footballers but they'd have to be pretty irresponsible to have all their wages going out each month.

From the piece Morgan quoted, Ozil has basically said he won't take a cut now but might in the future if he understands where that money is going.

Will ENIC put money into Spurs? Will Fenway put their money into Liverpool? Will the Glazers put their money into United? Or will they borrow against the club to keep the show on the road?

MKSpur said:
Ozil is an exceptional case I think.

I work for a bank, if I was told I need to take a 5% pay cut in take home pay to stop cleaners and maintenance staff losing their jobs while the office is closed in many ways I’d be happy to do so.
If my bank continues to report huge profits I’d expect the 5% to be paid back ahead of any other non binding commitment. I understand why footballers may be sceptical at their responsibility to support their employers if there are billionaire owners who are not offering as much as a loan to ease the cash flow. The smaller prem teams seem to have managed to do it with less fuss, perhaps they feel more of a part of the club and fortunate to be playing for them than those nearer the top?

There are worse offenders than footballers too, imo. The brass neck of Branson asking for a government loan whilst he lives in a tax haven for example. Tax avoiders Saint Gary Barlow playing a song on Teletext to raise everyones spirits etc etc.

The other thing that’s annoying me is the more genuine a club is in terms of relying on real word income the more they are going to be impacted by this than the financially doped ones, so any prudence required post the virus will not have to be observed by them and create a bigger gap in what they can spend
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I agree footballers are an easy target and there are others deserving of similar or closer scrutiny. But that doesn't excuse footballers. Profit numbers for clubs mean nothing right now. Neither does a turnover number because the revenue streams have essentially been shut off. It comes down to how much cash they have and what their outgoings are. Clubs aren't taking in money and their biggest expense (i.e. player wages) still have to be paid in full despite the players having a massively reduced workload. That's not right in my book. I could even buy into a wage deferral because it also wouldn't be right for players to miss out if clubs are going to make that money at a later date.
 
DeanoAustin said:
That's a fair point on footballers but they'd have to be pretty irresponsible to have all their wages going out each month.

From the piece Morgan quoted, Ozil has basically said he won't take a cut now but might in the future if he understands where that money is going.

Will ENIC put money into Spurs? Will Fenway put their money into Liverpool? Will the Glazers put their money into United? Or will they borrow against the club to keep the show on the road?



I agree footballers are an easy target and there are others deserving of similar or closer scrutiny. But that doesn't excuse footballers. Profit numbers for clubs mean nothing right now. Neither does a turnover number because the revenue streams have essentially been shut off. It comes down to how much cash they have and what their outgoings are. Clubs aren't taking in money and their biggest expense (i.e. player wages) still have to be paid in full despite the players having a massively reduced workload. That's not right in my book. I could even buy into a wage deferral because it also wouldn't be right for players to miss out if clubs are going to make that money at a later date.
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irresponsible or responsible for multiple dependents

I think thats a reasonable point of view from Ozil myself

on your last point, the players workload shouldn't have reduced at all, they should still be doing fitness and ball work every day, as we know so well, footballers are paid to train
 
galeforce said:
irresponsible or responsible for multiple dependents

I think thats a reasonable point of view from Ozil myself

on your last point, the players workload shouldn't have reduced at all, they should still be doing fitness and ball work every day, as we know so well, footballers are paid to train
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Do you really believe that most footballers don't have a lot of disposable cash?

They are maintaining fitness. They aren't playing, they aren't training as a group, they have little in the way of media work to be doing. Their employers also aren't taking in any money, the country is on its knees. For me, what they are currently doing is immoral.

One journo summed up football clubs very well at the weekend. They're effectively cash flow businesses. They turnover a lot of money but don't retain much of it as it goes into the pockets of the various stakeholders. At the moment they have no money coming in but still have large amounts going out. That's not right and it will be the clubs rather than the owners or players who suffer for it in the long term.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Do you really believe that most footballers don't have a lot of disposable cash?

They are maintaining fitness. They aren't playing, they aren't training as a group, they have little in the way of media work to be doing. Their employers also aren't taking in any money, the country is on its knees. For me, what they are currently doing is immoral.

One journo summed up football clubs very well at the weekend. They're effectively cash flow businesses. They turnover a lot of money but don't retain much of it as it goes into the pockets of the various stakeholders. At the moment they have no money coming in but still have large amounts going out. That's not right and it will be the clubs rather than the owners or players who suffer for it in the long term.
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All of this is right
 
DeanoAustin said:
Do you really believe that most footballers don't have a lot of disposable cash?

They are maintaining fitness. They aren't playing, they aren't training as a group, they have little in the way of media work to be doing. Their employers also aren't taking in any money, the country is on its knees. For me, what they are currently doing is immoral.

One journo summed up football clubs very well at the weekend. They're effectively cash flow businesses. They turnover a lot of money but don't retain much of it as it goes into the pockets of the various stakeholders. At the moment they have no money coming in but still have large amounts going out. That's not right and it will be the clubs rather than the owners or players who suffer for it in the long term.
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I'm sure most of them do, but not all, so it isn't right that there is a sweeping move, it has to be on a per player basis and kept private between player and club.

I'd hope they would be doing more than maintaining fitness, they should still be receiving tactical instruction and working on technical weaknesses, they should be studying opposition team and individual footage, this is a great opportunity to level up mentally without the distraction of actual games.

Yep true, but football as a local community service died decades ago, the owners and the players are football now.
 
galeforce said:
I'm sure most of them do, but not all, so it isn't right that there is a sweeping move, it has to be on a per player basis and kept private between player and club.

I'd hope they would be doing more than maintaining fitness, they should still be receiving tactical instruction and working on technical weaknesses, they should be studying opposition team and individual footage, this is a great opportunity to level up mentally without the distraction of actual games.

Yep true, but football as a local community service died decades ago, the owners and the players are football now.
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Quite a few of our players ( insert preferred space goat here)should be exceptionally busy at the moment then!
 
galeforce said:
I'm sure most of them do, but not all, so it isn't right that there is a sweeping move, it has to be on a per player basis and kept private between player and club.

I'd hope they would be doing more than maintaining fitness, they should still be receiving tactical instruction and working on technical weaknesses, they should be studying opposition team and individual footage, this is a great opportunity to level up mentally without the distraction of actual games.

Yep true, but football as a local community service died decades ago, the owners and the players are football now.
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I certainly agree on your first point. A sweeping move may not be fair.

They probably are doing more than just maintaining fitness, I was being a bit flippant. But even allowing for what you're saying, their workload is reduced substantially, their employers don't have any incoming revenue and the players are still drawing a full wage. I think we just have differing opinions on how this should be handled which is fair enough because I've heard and seen lots of people argue the point you're making.
 
Aldo said:
Where is the 12.5% going - into the Woolwich coffers or donated to the NHS?

if it’s the former, then less tax paid = less funding for the NHS than currently.
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I've seen that argument a few times. NHS funding isn't set at a percentage of total tax revenue. It instead is set at a specific figure. One could argue that less revenue means less for the exchequer to spread around as they see fit, but it doesn't necessarily directly impact NHS funding.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I've seen that argument a few times. NHS funding isn't set at a percentage of total tax revenue. It instead is set at a specific figure. One could argue that less revenue means less for the exchequer to spread around as they see fit, but it doesn't necessarily directly impact NHS funding.
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I’ve never heard that before, very interesting, have you got a link that explains it?

In any case, Arse benefits, NHS doesn’t.
 
Aldo said:
I’ve never heard that before, very interesting, have you got a link that explains it?

In any case, Arse benefits, NHS doesn’t.
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Tax is handed over centrally to HMRC
Then government organisations apply for funding via the green book model to run their operations
 
Ozil is in the same position as anybody else who earns as much as him in this country. He's entitled not to take a pay cut. If he is happy to get some bad media and keep earning the amount his contract entitles him to then so be it. Moral arguments are odd in this space. These are his wages. He can do with them as he chooses as long as he doesn't break the law.
 
Finney Is Back said:
It's not necessarily the NHS that gets less at all. I think of all the pots the government would go after in terms of spending cuts the NHS would be the least likely.
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True
I work on defence and out budgets are not being affected at all
Mainly because everyone is planning for a very different world
 
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