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The final straw?

well being a Dinamo Zagreb fan he was most likely first introduced to Spurs when we had Jol in charge when we played them in the Uefa Cup, which was the last period when we did have a genuinely good atmosphere. since then it has been a steady decline
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Even then I think it was overrated. Just about any newly promoted team with a decent following always outsings us, on top of that you have Man Utd, Chelsea, West Ham, (although not in recent times!)... we have always been a bit of spoiled brat club, in truth. It is not anything majorly new. There was an improvement in the Jol era because it was the first time we'd been doing decent consistently for about a decade
 
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Jordinho said:
We are living in the age of attention seeking and any attention will do. So many are just desperate to be noticed and have absolutely no shame. There's also lot more impatience than before, we want it all and we want it now. It's all about quick fixes and instant gratification, which long term gets you nowhere.
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=D>=D>=D>
 
japenesegardenlover said:
i will be in london but i shall not be popping along to speakers corner on this visit

if you were ever to catch me you would probably just agree with everything i say because im so amazing and always right so i very much doubt i would get booed. The ones that ignore me have a "foreign" look to them so i figure they just can not understand me.

To be honest the ones that cheer when we score a goal but are not prepared to boo when we play badly are the ones i do not like. You should not cheer unless your prepared to boo as well.
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this is turning into a parody point of view.
 
thfcsteff said:
=D>=D>=D>
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I dunno I just think the Premier League has been designed that way now. Players are more inclined to move because more power is in their hands. On top of that you have the wage differentials that encourage it further. All this means clubs don't have time that they used to. You can't be looking years ahead because all your best players will have moved on. And obviously this has filtered down to the fans. Natural selection innit. The ones who do well in the current climate are those who can hit the ground running. Wenger won the double in his first full season! Moyes kept Everton up and then had them in the CL a couple of years later. Both Redknapp and Jol with us were also examples of this. Whereas the examples comparable to Ferguson at Man Utd, struggling for years and years before finally everything clicks, are few and far between now. If it isn't going well after a year then it probably never will.
 
jimmyb said:
I have been a Spurs fan for 40 years.

I have been going to games at the Lane for more than 30 years.

I have had two season tickets for nigh on 20 years.

In all that time, I have borne witness to some truly shocking Spurs performances. I have suffered some dreadful Spurs teams. I have been subjected to some acutely embarrassing results. And I have swallowed some bitter disappointments.

Yet my love of going to games has never wavered.

Until now.

What am I talking about? This current team? This manager? Today's performance?

No. None of those. That would be silly. I have seen far worse teams. Far worse performances. And this manager needs time - to succeed or to fail.

No..........what I'm talking about is, sadly, something that I have all too often had to talk about over the past few seasons - but especially this season.

I'm talking about our fans. I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that our fans are the worst in the entire country. If I was a Spurs player, I wouldn't want to play for us. If I was Gareth Bale, I would be telling my agent to get me out of here as quickly as possible. If I was Jan Vertonghen, I'd be asking myself why the fudge I signed for this club. If I was a kid at his first game, I wouldn't want to support Spurs. I'd look elsewhere for a club upon which to lavish my love and, in the future, my money.

There's just a terrible feeling around the Lane these days. No fun. No passion. No unity. No sense of a club and fans on a shared journey, with a common cause.

And no.....poor performances are no excuse for the utter lack of any support from the stands - a few sorry, half hearted and short lived chants from the Park Lane notwithstanding. As I said, anyone who has been coming to the Lane for any length of time has had to put up with far worse than what we witnessed today, far too often in the past. But we still had an atmosphere.

Today, the only time that the vast majority of fans (to call them "supporters" would be a misnomer) stirred themselves from utter silence was to boo or berate. I wouldn't mind the booing and the slagging off of players and manager if those who were voicing their displeasure had earned it by at least making some effort to get behind the team in the first place. But no, these people prefer to sit in po-faced silence....until something goes wrong, at which point they suddenly find their voices. And then some. Sickening. Disheartening.

Modern football has stripped the game of most of its romance. But, still, I can take financially doped clubs like Chelsea and City in my stride. I can take the erosion of true competition. I can take the inexorable spread of commercialism.

But what I can't take is the metamorphosis of the atmosphere at the Lane from the impressive and electric experience that it once was to the depressing embarrassment that it now is. In short, it's just no fun going to games any more. Time was when it was always fun - regardless of the quality of the Spurs team of the day. Nowadays, it's never really fun - even when we play brilliantly.

Fans have it within them to make games fun regardless of the performance or the result. But they choose not to. Maybe they have forgotten it? Maybe they never even knew it?

Whatever..........unless things change - and quickly - it saddens me profoundly to have to confess that this could very well be the final straw. My days of being a regular at the Lane could soon be coming to an end.
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Absolutely spot on and pretty much exactly how i feel

I don't personally have any problem with us booing at the end of a match if its been a dire performance but for 90 minutes we need to be vocally behind the team. I would take mid table mediocrity to have the passion and atmosphere back at the Lane. No matter what happened on the pitch it used to always be a top day out for me. Now even with a win on the pitch i leave N17 wondering why the fudge i've bothered.

The lack of available tickets for excited new young'uns to start coming is a massive factor for me. A massive percentage of the ground are old jaded veterans that can't be fudged with it anymore but keep hold of their season tickets out of habit more than anything.

Also for those without ST that just buy off their memberships and end up in different parts of the ground each time the surrounding pretty much dictate how much noise you can make. If i get a ticket in the park lane or in that shelf corner its all good and i can sing my heart out but if i end up elsewhere in the ground with all the will in the world you aint gonna get a sniff of a singsong and sounds like a right helmet trying to get the paxton going on your own

Plenty of other factors, most of which have been covered already
 
Harry_Perkins said:
I dunno I just think the Premier League has been designed that way now. Players are more inclined to move because more power is in their hands. On top of that you have the wage differentials that encourage it further. All this means clubs don't have time that they used to. You can't be looking years ahead because all your best players will have moved on. And obviously this has filtered down to the fans. Natural selection innit. The ones who do well in the current climate are those who can hit the ground running. Wenger won the double in his first full season! Moyes kept Everton up and then had them in the CL a couple of years later. Both Redknapp and Jol with us were also examples of this. Whereas the examples comparable to Ferguson at Man Utd, struggling for years and years before finally everything clicks, are few and far between now. If it isn't going well after a year then it probably never will.
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Agree with a lot of the sentiments in that post, but Fergie's "failure" has to be considered.
 
jts1882 said:
Agree with a lot of the sentiments in that post, but Fergie's "failure" has to be considered.
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Yes and the answer to that is that we're almost talking about a different game if you go back to 1986-1990 when he was struggling. You could do what I described. You had a fair amount of time to build and make mistakes. None of his better players were looking to leave after a couple of years for a better shot at honours or more money. Because there was no guarantees like today. There was no bosman, no champions league.... you may as well go back to Burkinshaw with Spurs, if we talk about Ferguson in the late 80s. He went down with us but kept the job and we also kept our better/most promising players. Hoddle included. Unthinkable now. We then signed world cup winners upon promotion! Again, unthinkable for a newly promoted club to do that now. Even a big club. That was 1976-1980 but not that different to 1986-1990 whereas those two periods now are a world apart from 2012.
 
Harry_Perkins said:
Even then I think it was overrated. Just about any newly promoted team with a decent following always outsings us, on top of that you have Man Utd, Chelsea, West Ham, (although not in recent times!)... we have always been a bit of spoiled brat club, in truth. It is not anything majorly new. There was an improvement in the Jol era because it was the first time we'd been doing decent consistently for about a decade
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Well, as I said, I really didn't take much notice to the Premiership until I got into Spurs...The TV always showed Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea or Arsenal, and I really didn't care for any of them. When I started to follow Spurs, there was much more energy and good vibrations at the Lane, that's for sure.
 
This is something the fans need to take responsibility for and change themselves. No one else is gonna do it. I do have faith in the 1882 movement. It's think it is well organised with time should grow.
We should start our own version! The glory-glory movement and give them some competition!!
 
An article which nicely encapsulates what this discussion is about:

http://www.thefighting****.co.uk/2012/11/becoming-what-we-love-to-hate-about-arsenal/?

(if you want to click on the link, you'll have to replace the stars with the word, c o c k).


Becoming What We Love To Hate About Arsenal

Wed 7 Nov 2012

Some readers will have heard my ramblings on the excellent Fighting **** podcast and I’ve promised them I’d pen a few words for about two years now. I’d like to take the opportunity to write a short article about a subject I feel very strongly about.

As regular listeners to the podcast will know, I’m a long standing season ticket holder in the Park Lane lower and over the past decade, have visited most away grounds with Spurs on numerous occasions. I’ve also been privileged to fulfil a great ambition and follow Spurs all over Europe.

In 2003, nearly ten years ago, I moved my season ticket from the Park Lane upper tier to Block 33, Park Lane lower. There were two reasons behind this. The first was to relocate so that I could sit with a couple of mates, despite compromising on the excellent view I had with my previous seat. The second was to be part of the action. I wanted to be where the atmosphere started. I wanted to be in that number.

It was a measure I took to counter balance the woeful displays we’d see on the pitch under the helm of Hoddle and later, David Pleat. It didn’t matter that I didn’t really enjoy watching Gary Doherty and Milenko Acimovic make Spurs look like a pub side. What mattered then was that I had a good laugh with my mates and our support drowned out the away fans (and the inevitable ‘Crazy In Love’ by Beyonce that would blare over the PA system at White Hart Lane as David Pleat shuffled nervously after a home defeat to Bolton.)

Our performances on the pitch improved under Jol, we marched back in to Europe before ‘Arry took us to the dizzying heights of the Champions League. The atmosphere at White Hart Lane mirrored our new found optimism – the night against Inter Milan stands out as the pinnacle. It was as if everyone in the stadium that evening found harmony. Those old around in 1984 reminded why they’d stuck with it. Those too young thinking, ‘finally, this is what I’ve waited for.’

But was that night the worst thing that’s happened to our club in recent years?
With success brings expectation. And with expectation, you get failures – a sense of disappointment that doesn’t exist with comfortably underachieving. That win against Inter Milan fed Spurs fans with an expectation that we could and should beat every team we face.

I’d noticed the lack of atmosphere throughout last season. The sense of expectation that we should be winning every home game bred nerves which in turn flattens the mood as nails are chewed to the bone. It was obvious that the fractious crowd was split; pro and anti Redknapp. Hardly conducive towards a unified support for the team, for the club.

The home games in the 2012-2013 seasons have been painful to attend. No more so than they were during the early 2000s, quite the opposite in fact – we get to watch Bale, undoubtedly the most exciting footballer in the Premier League. The impatience of the crowd, the tension that so evidently filters through to our players and the jeering is intolerable. For me, it ruins my day and my whole experience of attending games at White Hart Lane, whatever the final score.

So, why does this happen? Why do we do the one thing that, for many years, we have taken such great pleasure in berating our rivals for? Why do we treat our players and even more so, our manager, as enemies?

The popular argument is that we all spend the cash that we work hard for, and a lot of it these days, watching people doing the job we’d all love to do and getting paid twice as much a week than most earn in a year. And it is because of this that the fans feel like the players owe them. Instead of turning up at the ground to get behind your team, fans go through the turnstiles and expect to be entertained and to get the result they want.

The most unlikely of people summarised this perfectly this week. A man who was hated by the majority in his early years at the club. In his ever eloquent way, Benoit Assou-Ekotto wrote on Twitter: “so dont support us! Com wotch and go bk at home…WHL is not a CINEMA! Fans com to support in BAd or GOOD moment( TRUE FANS)”

That’s exactly what we used to do and we’d enjoy it, whether we drew at home to Middlesbrough or lost at home to Manchester United. But how much did we love it and appreciate it when all that was rewarded by a win over Liverpool, Saudi Sportswashing Machine or more recently Arsenal and Chelsea?

At times, I wonder whether there is a greater fear of losing than there is a desire to win amongst some Tottenham fans. I speculate about the advent of social media playing a part in this. It’s now so easy to berate rival fans over their shortcomings in a way that we fear failure because we, as fans, are open to typed torture and feel vulnerable. Do our players feel the same?

The calls for Villas Boas to be sacked deserve a separate article, but to boo his substitutions at this stage is totally macaronic behaviour. To boo and jeer our manager, our players or our team in general is completely counter-productive. It doesn’t make players try harder, it doesn’t make managers rethink their tactics and it doesn’t make our team win. Getting behind them does. It’s not difficult to see that.

White Hart Lane used to be feared by opposition players because of the atmosphere. Away fans hated coming to Tottenham because it was intimidating. During that period, our home form was excellent, even if the football wasn’t up to the standard we have come to expect over the past few seasons. Neither statement is true now.

We have become the Chelsea fans that we laughed at for pleading with Roman Abramovich to fire. Worst of all, we have become the Arsenal fans that we loved to hate because they booed the team off at half time, because they sat in silence for the rest of it and because they left early when they were 1-0 down at home.

Football is romanticised by fate and destiny. It is uncontrollable and, as fans, you are powerless to change that. You can’t pick the team, you can’t make William Gallas taller, nor Gareth Bale stick to the left wing. Football fans have one power and that is to influence the spirit of the players.

Just as we did that night against Inter Milan, unite, be one, be Tottenham Hotspur and love every minute of it. Tottenham chose you, but you choose to be with them when you go through the gates at White Hart Lane.
 
jimmyb said:
An article which nicely encapsulates what this discussion is about:

http://www.thefighting****.co.uk/2012/11/becoming-what-we-love-to-hate-about-arsenal/?

(if you want to click on the link, you'll have to replace the stars with the word, c o c k).


Becoming What We Love To Hate About Arsenal

Wed 7 Nov 2012

Some readers will have heard my ramblings on the excellent Fighting **** podcast and I’ve promised them I’d pen a few words for about two years now. I’d like to take the opportunity to write a short article about a subject I feel very strongly about.

As regular listeners to the podcast will know, I’m a long standing season ticket holder in the Park Lane lower and over the past decade, have visited most away grounds with Spurs on numerous occasions. I’ve also been privileged to fulfil a great ambition and follow Spurs all over Europe.

In 2003, nearly ten years ago, I moved my season ticket from the Park Lane upper tier to Block 33, Park Lane lower. There were two reasons behind this. The first was to relocate so that I could sit with a couple of mates, despite compromising on the excellent view I had with my previous seat. The second was to be part of the action. I wanted to be where the atmosphere started. I wanted to be in that number.

It was a measure I took to counter balance the woeful displays we’d see on the pitch under the helm of Hoddle and later, David Pleat. It didn’t matter that I didn’t really enjoy watching Gary Doherty and Milenko Acimovic make Spurs look like a pub side. What mattered then was that I had a good laugh with my mates and our support drowned out the away fans (and the inevitable ‘Crazy In Love’ by Beyonce that would blare over the PA system at White Hart Lane as David Pleat shuffled nervously after a home defeat to Bolton.)

Our performances on the pitch improved under Jol, we marched back in to Europe before ‘Arry took us to the dizzying heights of the Champions League. The atmosphere at White Hart Lane mirrored our new found optimism – the night against Inter Milan stands out as the pinnacle. It was as if everyone in the stadium that evening found harmony. Those old around in 1984 reminded why they’d stuck with it. Those too young thinking, ‘finally, this is what I’ve waited for.’

But was that night the worst thing that’s happened to our club in recent years?
With success brings expectation. And with expectation, you get failures – a sense of disappointment that doesn’t exist with comfortably underachieving. That win against Inter Milan fed Spurs fans with an expectation that we could and should beat every team we face.

I’d noticed the lack of atmosphere throughout last season. The sense of expectation that we should be winning every home game bred nerves which in turn flattens the mood as nails are chewed to the bone. It was obvious that the fractious crowd was split; pro and anti Redknapp. Hardly conducive towards a unified support for the team, for the club.

The home games in the 2012-2013 seasons have been painful to attend. No more so than they were during the early 2000s, quite the opposite in fact – we get to watch Bale, undoubtedly the most exciting footballer in the Premier League. The impatience of the crowd, the tension that so evidently filters through to our players and the jeering is intolerable. For me, it ruins my day and my whole experience of attending games at White Hart Lane, whatever the final score.

So, why does this happen? Why do we do the one thing that, for many years, we have taken such great pleasure in berating our rivals for? Why do we treat our players and even more so, our manager, as enemies?

The popular argument is that we all spend the cash that we work hard for, and a lot of it these days, watching people doing the job we’d all love to do and getting paid twice as much a week than most earn in a year. And it is because of this that the fans feel like the players owe them. Instead of turning up at the ground to get behind your team, fans go through the turnstiles and expect to be entertained and to get the result they want.

The most unlikely of people summarised this perfectly this week. A man who was hated by the majority in his early years at the club. In his ever eloquent way, Benoit Assou-Ekotto wrote on Twitter: “so dont support us! Com wotch and go bk at home…WHL is not a CINEMA! Fans com to support in BAd or GOOD moment( TRUE FANS)”

That’s exactly what we used to do and we’d enjoy it, whether we drew at home to Middlesbrough or lost at home to Manchester United. But how much did we love it and appreciate it when all that was rewarded by a win over Liverpool, Saudi Sportswashing Machine or more recently Arsenal and Chelsea?

At times, I wonder whether there is a greater fear of losing than there is a desire to win amongst some Tottenham fans. I speculate about the advent of social media playing a part in this. It’s now so easy to berate rival fans over their shortcomings in a way that we fear failure because we, as fans, are open to typed torture and feel vulnerable. Do our players feel the same?

The calls for Villas Boas to be sacked deserve a separate article, but to boo his substitutions at this stage is totally macaronic behaviour. To boo and jeer our manager, our players or our team in general is completely counter-productive. It doesn’t make players try harder, it doesn’t make managers rethink their tactics and it doesn’t make our team win. Getting behind them does. It’s not difficult to see that.

White Hart Lane used to be feared by opposition players because of the atmosphere. Away fans hated coming to Tottenham because it was intimidating. During that period, our home form was excellent, even if the football wasn’t up to the standard we have come to expect over the past few seasons. Neither statement is true now.

We have become the Chelsea fans that we laughed at for pleading with Roman Abramovich to fire. Worst of all, we have become the Arsenal fans that we loved to hate because they booed the team off at half time, because they sat in silence for the rest of it and because they left early when they were 1-0 down at home.

Football is romanticised by fate and destiny. It is uncontrollable and, as fans, you are powerless to change that. You can’t pick the team, you can’t make William Gallas taller, nor Gareth Bale stick to the left wing. Football fans have one power and that is to influence the spirit of the players.

Just as we did that night against Inter Milan, unite, be one, be Tottenham Hotspur and love every minute of it. Tottenham chose you, but you choose to be with them when you go through the gates at White Hart Lane.
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Superb
 
So, the Lily Whites are now the Betty Whites, eh?

I'm grateful for the timing of this thread. A mate and I had begun planning a trip to take in a couple of Spurs games, re-visit the Lane before MegaLane rises in its place. I think we shall defer. We'll spend our money on white powder instead.

Skiing on it, of course. Whistler, B.C., Kranjska Gora, Zermatt. Bang for the buck in any of them.
 
Much better atmosphere tonight. Not exactly rocking but at least there was a positive vibe from the start. No impatience or negativity, even after conceding the comedy goal.

And well done to the 1882 lot. Sang throughout and managed to inspire others to join in.
 
I agree with the sentiments of JimmyB. We supporters have a part to play and the negativity helps no-one.

I was one of the boo-ers for the Defoe substitution against Wigan. I am not proud of myself for doing so but it was bourne out of frustration and I immediately regretted it as I knew it was counterproductive.

I do think though that it is a two way street. Spurs fans want to be entertained. Win or lose - we at least want something (anything) to cheer. On Saturday, there just wasnt anything to get excited about at all. In those circumstances, while it is beneficial for the crowd to help the team, it is just very difficult to do so when there is nothing coming back. Just like you wouldnt chant and sing for 90 minutes staring at a brick wall - the crowd is human too and also needs motivation. Just a spark of something would help.

My last thought on why the atmosphere at the Lane has deteriorated since the high of the Milan game, has really been the comulative effect on everyone's psyche. We have all been kicked in the gut so many times (Arse away, CL ousting, Chelsea semi, last minute goals, losing at home to minor teams , moribund negative tactics, woeful displays) and so few concommitant "highs" of rousing performances, last minute winning goals, turning defeats into victories, towering performances) that it has all had a wearing effect on our combined mentality. We have been kicked in the gut so many times and not had the balancing euphoria of a few highs with nights to really remember, that we are becoming more jaded and this is affecting our overall morale. It therefore becomes more and more difficult to raise ourselves to sing our hearts out for the team which is delivering little back in return.

As I said, we are only human too.
 
jimmyb said:
Much better atmosphere tonight. Not exactly rocking but at least there was a positive vibe from the start. No impatience or negativity, even after conceding the comedy goal.

And well done to the 1882 lot. Sang throughout and managed to inspire others to join in.
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Just got in, the A27 was its usual fudging pain in the arse.

Did not boo once tonight, naughton did his fudge up right infront of me, but i actually cheered him when he next got the ball, he is only young so i want him to come good, also said to my mate he would not have done that if he was playing right back because he would have cleared down the line.

I missed dempsey not getting enough time to boo did not think it right to boo when he was on for such a short spell, i think its an important part of football. Like how at the theatre in olden times they used to throw rotten veg at the actors.

Was a decent vibe about the pplace tonight, not rocking but then why should it be.

You know if your really bothered about the atmosphere you should look for a ban to people who come in late. I was up and down like a fudging yoyo till the 20th minute with people coming in.
 
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