The Elephant On The Forum

[Gazza Dazzla]

AVB has said earlier that we werent title contenders though. Obviously that was to the public and maybe to play down expectations. It was interesting as Redknapp got abuse about this, funnily enough I remember George Graham getting abuse for saying we no chance of winning the league even before it started back when he was in charge with a squad of nobodies.

I find the George graham part hard to believe and I don't remember that at all. There's no way any spurs supporter just before, during or just after his reign would have suggested we could win the league or be ****ed off that anyone suggested we couldn't with the team we had then. We all knew we were **** and closer to relegation than winning the league.

 

[Robbo]

Or last 38 games in the PL: WWLWLLLWWWLWDWWWDDDWWWWLLWDWDWDWWWWLWW

23 - 7 - 8

76 points. Two points per game.

Since New Years (23 games): WDDDWWWWLLWDWDWDWWWWLWW

14 - 6 - 3

48 points. 2,08 points per game. Adds up to 79 points a season.

Should be enough for third/fourth if we keep it up. But we need to be even more clinical to win it.

 

[El Guepardo]

Or last 38 games in the PL: WWLWLLLWWWLWDWWWDDDWWWWLLWDWDWDWWWWLWW

23 - 7 - 8

76 points. Two points per game.

Since New Years (23 games): WDDDWWWWLLWDWDWDWWWWLWW

14 - 6 - 3

48 points. 2,08 points per game. Adds up to 79 points a season.

Should be enough for third/fourth if we keep it up. But we need to be even more clinical to win it.

And if we maintain our form this season, a statistic attained using the players that we now have, we have earned an average of 2.4 points per game. Over the course of a season, that equates to 91.2 points.

That statistic shows 2 things;

Firstly, we would need to maintain current form to win the title, which would be very impressive especially with so many games against the other top 6 sides.

Secondly, form can always be transferred in to statistics but how realistic are those statistics? We create new statistics with every game that we play from here on, it's down to the players, management and luck to see if we can achieve the success.

I think we can

 

[Joesh]

I find the George graham part hard to believe and I don't remember that at all. There's no way any spurs supporter just before, during or just after his reign would have suggested we could win the league or be ****ed off that anyone suggested we couldn't with the team we had then. We all knew we were **** and closer to relegation than winning the league.

Nobody believed we did but it was more the idea of him saying it. To be fair it was more of a media thing playing up the fact that we admitted couldnt compete at a time we were trying to convince Campbell to stay.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Right, with you now.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Or last 38 games in the PL: WWLWLLLWWWLWDWWWDDDWWWWLLWDWDWDWWWWLWW

23 - 7 - 8

76 points. Two points per game.

Since New Years (23 games): WDDDWWWWLLWDWDWDWWWWLWW

14 - 6 - 3

48 points. 2,08 points per game. Adds up to 79 points a season.

Should be enough for third/fourth if we keep it up. But we need to be even more clinical to win it.

I think this season we'll break our Premiership points record again, but then I think all of the top six may breach 70pts this season. There is so much cannon fodder this season that points will be easy to pick up.

But the real tests of whether we are a title contender is how we play our rivals, and especially how we play our rivals AWAY from home. Chelsea this week isn't a test. Chelsea at home this week should be 3pts and a superior performance to them, if we are title contenders.

But people do get carried away pre-Xmas. Results pre-Xmas are often wonderful and strange. Teams start fast, teams start slow. It's the Xmas period that starts to sort out the men from the boys, and it's Easter when the contenders really flex their muscles. We've had a VERY kind start to the season with the fixtures. Three relegation candidates in the first five matches. That's allowed us to play poorly the first couple of games and grind out 3pts.

Now the team is coming together we'll see what we're made of but in my opinion too many people are over rating us and under rating the opposition. None of the big guns are firing properly yet, but they rarely do for the first 10 matches, and yet you look at the table and you can already see how it's shaping up.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

I think there's only one person around who actually genuinely believes we can do it this season. And that's AVB.

AVB has a touch of Nicholson to him - he sets his sights so high that even failure will have in it an echo of glory. Never had is so good Redknapp? - pah!

Bill Nick understood the Spurs way and what the fans wanted. Bill Nick's team were finesse and grace. AVB's teams are power and brute force. Go one up, hold it. AVB may end up being our most successful manager of all time or may get the boot at the end of the season if we fail to finish top four (and because he has preached revolution not evolution, he does deserve the sack if we fail top four this year) but a Spurs man understanding the Spurs way he'll never be and he'll never compare to Bill Nick.

 

[braineclipse]

I think this season we'll break our Premiership points record again, but then I think all of the top six may breach 70pts this season. There is so much cannon fodder this season that points will be easy to pick up.

But the real tests of whether we are a title contender is how we play our rivals, and especially how we play our rivals AWAY from home. Chelsea this week isn't a test. Chelsea at home this week should be 3pts and a superior performance to them, if we are title contenders.

But people do get carried away pre-Xmas. Results pre-Xmas are often wonderful and strange. Teams start fast, teams start slow. It's the Xmas period that starts to sort out the men from the boys, and it's Easter when the contenders really flex their muscles. We've had a VERY kind start to the season with the fixtures. Three relegation candidates in the first five matches. That's allowed us to play poorly the first couple of games and grind out 3pts.

Now the team is coming together we'll see what we're made of but in my opinion too many people are over rating us and under rating the opposition. None of the big guns are firing properly yet, but they rarely do for the first 10 matches, and yet you look at the table and you can already see how it's shaping up.

By that logic neither United or Chelsea are title contenders going by their results and performances away to City and United respectively.

I agree with what you're saying about it being too early to tell for sure. I think part of the hope is that as the season progresses the improvement you're describing from top teams will happen to us. And I think hoping for that is quite reasonable all things considered. I also think that a hope that the Christmas period will be good for us with the squad we have is a fairly reasonable hope.

 

[braineclipse]

Bill Nick understood the Spurs way and what the fans wanted. Bill Nick's team were finesse and grace. AVB's teams are power and brute force. Go one up, hold it. AVB may end up being our most successful manager of all time or may get the boot at the end of the season if we fail to finish top four (and because he has preached revolution not evolution, he does deserve the sack if we fail top four this year) but a Spurs man understanding the Spurs way he'll never be and he'll never compare to Bill Nick.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

By that logic neither United or Chelsea are title contenders going by their results and performances away to City and United respectively.

I agree with what you're saying about it being too early to tell for sure. I think part of the hope is that as the season progresses the improvement you're describing from top teams will happen to us. And I think hoping for that is quite reasonable all things considered. I also think that a hope that the Christmas period will be good for us with the squad we have is a fairly reasonable hope.

Disagree. Although the manner of defeats can be poor, I think a title contending team losing away from home to a top five team doesn't not make them title contenders. Home games on the other hand are a different matter all together. Although it never happens during a season, a title contending team should be winning all of their home games or at least being the better team at home even if they lose the match.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Eriksen being a panic purchase after we failed to get Willian. A panic purchase that may make AVB's Spurs tenure. A strange one though, considering AVB got rid of VDV. I think Eriksen will be a stop gap until AVB gets in the four or five new players he wants over the next 12 months.

As for the goal? It was a beautiful goal, but even the dour George Graham teams scored beautiful goals on a frequent basis. Just like an entertaining team can score direct goals. The proof of the style is not in the manner the team plays over 90 minutes and let's face it. Under AVB it's rarely pretty.

 

[braineclipse]

Disagree. Although the manner of defeats can be poor, I think a title contending team losing away from home to a top five team doesn't not make them title contenders. Home games on the other hand are a different matter all together. Although it never happens during a season, a title contending team should be winning all of their home games or at least being the better team at home even if they lose the match.

How about United's 6-1 loss last season at home to City? They still walked the title...

Individual games are often blown out of proportion and over interpreted imo. What we've done so far this season means that a win at home to Chelsea would be a massive bonus, but not a necessity.

Eriksen being a panic purchase after we failed to get Willian. A panic purchase that may make AVB's Spurs tenure. A strange one though, considering AVB got rid of VDV. I think Eriksen will be a stop gap until AVB gets in the four or five new players he wants over the next 12 months.

As for the goal? It was a beautiful goal, but even the dour George Graham teams scored beautiful goals on a frequent basis. Just like an entertaining team can score direct goals. The proof of the style is not in the manner the team plays over 90 minutes and let's face it. Under AVB it's rarely pretty.

But surely going after both Willian and then Eriksen shows that we're going for much more than just power and brute force?

The goal was more to showcase to other players, one that is certainly not primarily about power and brute force in Lamela and one that has both flair and brute force in his locker in Paulinho.

I said that individual matches are often over interpreted, but perhaps individual seasons can be too? If you're not seeing an injection of skill, flair and ability into our squad with purchases like Vertonghen, Lamela and Eriksen then I don't quite know what to say.

AVB started by making us hard to beat, well organized, hard working and a good unit. He did that at a time of real turmoil at the club last season. That doesn't mean that this is the end of his plan or the edge of his abilities as a manager.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Jumpers you are just wrong on our style. Or you are talking like you haven't seen us much this season.

 

[Pirate55]

I'd bite your hand off for 4th.

League - no chance. We have enough of a battle beating ONE of Arsenal, Chelsea, City and United, never mind all four of them. Not gonna happen.

This. Some are really getting carried away on here. Not for the first time I guess

 

[indianspur]

Jumpers is Moonlit Knight....i think he is still missing 'Arry

 

[THFC6061]

Tottenham Hotspur's last 12 Premier League matches:

The average of 2.25 points per game works-out at around 86 points for the entire season of 38 matches.

That's enough to have won the Premier League Title in 8 out of the last 21 seasons.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Bill Nick understood the Spurs way and what the fans wanted. Bill Nick's team were finesse and grace. AVB's teams are power and brute force. Go one up, hold it. AVB may end up being our most successful manager of all time or may get the boot at the end of the season if we fail to finish top four (and because he has preached revolution not evolution, he does deserve the sack if we fail top four this year) but a Spurs man understanding the Spurs way he'll never be and he'll never compare to Bill Nick.

Bill Nich was an innovator. Yes he built on what he'd learnt playing under Arthur Rowe a decade before, but he wasn't any sort of traditionalist.

Considering how **** our recent history has been (10 years of freefall in the 90s, followed by 10 years of incremental repairs in the 00s), I'm really pleased AVB is ripping everything up and starting again. Our core/culture was rotten.

Football does progress, and 'tippy-tappy fragile' Spurs doesn't suit this time. Nor does Redknapp's 2 or 3 great players 'express yourself and we'll outscore our opponents' approach.

Look how Germany have adapted by spending a decade adding technique to their traditional power (and see how England are struggling because they didn't do the same). Look how Brazil have done completely the opposite and added power to their technique (compared to Spain, who are arguably being left behind; though their high-tempo pressing does compensate). Actually us having Brazil's CM is a sign of how we are on the same journey.

Yes we are big and powerful now. But we also play with the ball and have a lot of possession. I really enjoy watching us play - so controlled, disciplined, technical. We almost play with our opponents, waiting for a time to pick them off.

We've had wonderful maverick players to watch over the last 20 years - Gascoigne, Ginola, Berbatov, van der Vaart, Bale. But this is the best Spurs team I've ever seen by some considerably distance, and by far the best time to be a fan.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

This. Some are really getting carried away on here. Not for the first time I guess

And some are very negative for reasons described by BOL above.

We were never going to get in the champs league apparentely, then we were going to be humiliated in a tough group and ac Milan in the knockouts. Never be able to challenge for a champs league place with the added fixtures of champs league and Europa, but funnily enough we did challenge and missed out by the skin of our teeth the last 2 seasons.

I don't think anyone's said we will win the league have they? Unless I've missed it? Just that the other teams have quite clearly shown they're not much better than us at the moment, so why shouldn't we be considered as challengers? Especially as the pundits are starting to talk of us as that, surely we're allowed to raise the question?

Some Spurs fans being over critical and negative. Not for the 1st time I guess.

 

[scaramanga]

Jumpers is Moonlit Knight....i think he is still missing 'Arry

And 4-4-2, and oranges at half-time, and the British Empire.......

 

[Hootnow]

Eriksen being a panic purchase after we failed to get Willian. A panic purchase that may make AVB's Spurs tenure. A strange one though, considering AVB got rid of VDV. I think Eriksen will be a stop gap until AVB gets in the four or five new players he wants over the next 12 months.

As for the goal? It was a beautiful goal, but even the dour George Graham teams scored beautiful goals on a frequent basis. Just like an entertaining team can score direct goals. The proof of the style is not in the manner the team plays over 90 minutes and let's face it. Under AVB it's rarely pretty.

How can it have been a panic purchase when Willian wasn't even available for most of the window? He can't have been our first choice because anzhi only decided to sell halfway during the window and he was gone soon after.