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Southern Rail

Gilzeantoscore said:
Yeah every year hundreds of building workers are killed and injured at work due to unscrupulous employers taking short cuts, making them work in unsafe conditions and they have been getting away with it more and more as unions have got weaker. Ditto with employers underpaying workers as well as harassing them, young women in particular. Yeah, you get it!
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Thats utter crap, people have a choice and many builders and I know because I worked in the trade were and still are happy to work in unsafe environments, many workers in fact contributing to the unsafe working as long as they could be self employed and declare £600 a week instead of the price per metre work which was paying more £1200 cash a week in hand.

Back to the topic, my journey is broken up by two train lines, C2C and Southern both are run like chalk and cheese. C2C guardless trains run as one of the top 5 trainlines in the country, often topping the rankings, modern fleet and modern stations, safe and convenient. Having guard less trains has never been a problem and despite the drivers being members of ASLEF they have never had a strike over safety. Amazing then how Southern having guardless trains is all of a sudden a HUGE problem and ASLEF are acting on it on behalf of the drivers where other drivers in the country do the same and dont act? It does not stack up for me and I have eyes and I can make an educated observation on the situation.
 
Scara makes one good point at least, a lot of strikes, unions unrest, happens during a Tory goverment. But that is because the Torys are all behind the fat cats who sit in board rooms and making sure they are looked after, while the workers in the street get brick on.

Its always been that way and always will, the Torys have to much to lose to back the working man over those fat cats.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
You should be an ardent supporter of unions then, because that is exactly what your trickle down ideology is about, the few benefiting at the expense of the many. More Double Think going on here Scara. Greed is okay for you, but not for unionists.
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That post only goes to show how poor your understanding of the underlying economics is.

Firstly "trickle down" as you like to call it (or "don't punish success" as I like to) is not an ideology, neither is it an economic system. It's just one tiny cog in a huge piece of clockwork.

Secondly, it is used as a comparison between varying tax systems and is not relevant or viable outside of that sphere.

Thirdly, what you are describing is the precise opposite of "trickle down". The theory goes, that leaving money in the hands of those who will invest and/or employ people has a multiplier effect. That's very different to greedy unions taking money out of the hands of customers and employers, only to put it into the hands of those who are very unlikely to either invest or employ.
 
Lets be frank, the guards just don't want to walk up and down the trains like on South Western and sell tickets to those that need them, thats really the crux of all this and I have heard at least 5 guards say it on trains when they have vented off.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Lets be frank, the guards just don't want to walk up and down the trains like on South Western and sell tickets to those that need them, thats really the crux of all this and I have heard at least 5 guards say it on trains when they have vented off.
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It's pretty clear that they don't want DOO trains, and this change would be the start of that.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Ahhh ok then, the guards I heard must have been larking about then, silly me
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ok so the few you heard spouting off represnts all the members, didnt know thats how it worked , silly me indeed. Do you use the same rules for the rest of your life.


RMT general Secretary Mick Cash said: "The key issue at the heart of the dispute is that GTR (Southern's owners) have refused to agree that passengers will keep the guarantee they currently have of a safety critical conductor/on-board service supervisor staff on their train in addition to the driver.

They are removing the guarantee to have a guard, so the plan is not to have a driver and a guard on all trains.
 
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r-u-s-x said:
ok so the few you heard spouting off represnts all the members, didnt know thats how it worked , silly me indeed. Do you use the same rules for the rest of your life.
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Not every member voted for the strike but they still went on strike, so yeh I would say to an extent that is how it works.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Not every member voted for the strike but they still went on strike, so yeh I would say to an extent that is how it works.
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I have heard in a pub about half a dozen people who voted Brexit that they did it to "get rid of the Darkies", Cant believe everyone that voted leave is so bloody racist -
 
r-u-s-x said:
I have heard in a pub about half a dozen people who voted Brexit that they did it to "get rid of the Darkies", Cant believe everyone that voted leave is so bloody racist -
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No, they said "Parkies". They're fed up of that ridiculous EU ruling that all parks must have at least 5 park keepers.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Thats utter crap, people have a choice and many builders and I know because I worked in the trade were and still are happy to work in unsafe environments, many workers in fact contributing to the unsafe working as long as they could be self employed and declare £600 a week instead of the price per metre work which was paying more £1200 cash a week in hand.

Back to the topic, my journey is broken up by two train lines, C2C and Southern both are run like chalk and cheese. C2C guardless trains run as one of the top 5 trainlines in the country, often topping the rankings, modern fleet and modern stations, safe and convenient. Having guard less trains has never been a problem and despite the drivers being members of ASLEF they have never had a strike over safety. Amazing then how Southern having guardless trains is all of a sudden a HUGE problem and ASLEF are acting on it on behalf of the drivers where other drivers in the country do the same and dont act? It does not stack up for me and I have eyes and I can make an educated observation on the situation.
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You are incredible. Yeah people have a choice, go up on the scaffold ,or lose your job. Your the one spouting crap mate. Yeah, people are happy too to work in un-safe conditions. Even if the cowboys were as prevalent as you claim, the unions would have put a stop to un-safe practises. Guess those under paid workers chose that too? o_O You're an interesting case, perhaps the product of a right wing up-bringing, perhaps a Kool Aid drinker, perhaps affected by some deep union inspired trauma, such as your train being cancelled one day due to a strike. Ha, ha!
 
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r-u-s-x said:
I have heard in a pub about half a dozen people who voted Brexit that they did it to "get rid of the Darkies", Cant believe everyone that voted leave is so bloody racist -
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Wasting your time mate. Logic doesn't fit with right wingers, just their ill considered double think. One set of standards for themselves, one set of standards for the ideological bogeymen they see everywhere. I feel sorry for them, as they must live in constant fear of these hordes who aim to disrupt their personal lifestyle, it's personal you know.
 
scaramanga said:
That post only goes to show how poor your understanding of the underlying economics is.

Firstly "trickle down" as you like to call it (or "don't punish success" as I like to) is not an ideology, neither is it an economic system. It's just one tiny cog in a huge piece of clockwork.

Secondly, it is used as a comparison between varying tax systems and is not relevant or viable outside of that sphere.

Thirdly, what you are describing is the precise opposite of "trickle down". The theory goes, that leaving money in the hands of those who will invest and/or employ people has a multiplier effect. That's very different to greedy unions taking money out of the hands of customers and employers, only to put it into the hands of those who are very unlikely to either invest or employ.
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Yeah what a waste. You pay people decent money and guess what....? They spend it. What a terrible thing for the economy, in contrast to the elites who you boost, who bank it all in the Cayman islands. I think you're the one who knows nothing about economics. You just make it up as you go along. Yes, trickle down is just one of the failed aspects of neo-liberalism, which is an ideology. It has failed everywhere. It's based on greed but only the elite need apply! What bailed out the banks in the GFC...socialism...public ownership, when the government had to take over the banks and some big industries, here and in the US.. Right wingers have no shame, privatise the profits and socialise the losses. All those neo-liberal cheerleaders were cheering the socialism on then weren't they? You bet they were and you would too if it was your job and savings in the gun. The word hypocrite springs to mind!
 
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?OTE="Grays_1890, post: 876577, member: 858"]I love how some people think this is just government trying to smash the unions and nothing to do with the Unions being anti government and vindictive[/QUOTE]

Ha, ha! Vindictive, yeah a Southern Rail strike is going to do what? Bring down the state?:p Why would workers go without pay just because they're irked at having a Tory government? People who know nothing about how unions operate, spout this sort of nonsense. Ha, ha ,ha. You can't make this deluded crap up. Very entertaining.
 
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Was in the Times today and I can not link it unfortunately but it said since the summer the have been a dozens times that train drivers said they could not see clearly the on board camera, when it got back to the depot the technicians could find nothing wrong with it. I do not know why the drivers would ever do such a thing.
 
There have been 2 cases where trains have departed with people trapped in the doors - one a backpack strap that dragged the person along, the second someone's hand was trapped and she then slipped between the train and the platform as the train sped up. Neither seriously injured as both were seen in time. I guess 2 incidents out of however many thousand or million door openings make it statistically safe.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Yeah what a waste. You pay people decent money and guess what....? They spend it. What a terrible thing for the economy, in contrast to the elites who you boost, who bank it all in the Cayman islands. I think you're the one who knows nothing about economics. You just make it up as you go along. Yes, trickle down is just one of the failed aspects of neo-liberalism, which is an ideology. It has failed everywhere. It's based on greed but only the elite need apply! What bailed out the banks in the GFC...socialism...public ownership, when the government had to take over the banks and some big industries, here and in the US.. Right wingers have no shame, privatise the profits and socialise the losses. All those neo-liberal cheerleaders were cheering the socialism on then weren't they? You bet they were and you would too if it was your job and savings in the gun. The word hypocrite springs to mind!
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Far from it.

I was one of the first to say that banks had to be allowed to fail. That's the only way you'll get them to behave responsibly.

The way they're still doing the same old thing, with complete impunity is precisely why safety nets are bad.

If you genuinely think that cuts in corporation and capital gains tax end up in the Cayman Isles them you're just fighting a straw man - no wonder you have such a skewed view of the world.

Sent from my SM-G925F using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
Lost Mango said:
There have been 2 cases where trains have departed with people trapped in the doors - one a backpack strap that dragged the person along, the second someone's hand was trapped and she then slipped between the train and the platform as the train sped up. Neither seriously injured as both were seen in time. I guess 2 incidents out of however many thousand or million door openings make it statistically safe.
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Safe enough for me.

Also, if the doors are beeping - step the fudge away. Don't be the clam that makes us all late.
 
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