Sick sick world what is wrong with people

[scaramanga]

Not sure what you mean by "as many seem to wish"? Who are these many people wishing for another atrocity by Hamas?

Just head to London on any weekend. You'll find thousands of them.

Would you be willing to point out what you think Israel have done wrong in this conflict over time?

Absolutely. As with any conflict, there will be some individual actions taken in the heat of battle that shouldn't have been. When the fighting stops and the investigations are complete, we can go through that stuff.

What would you consider to be legitimate concerns for Palestinians? Would you consider anything Israel has done in this conflict over time an attack? Or is it to you a history of Israel getting attacked and only defending themselves?

I think the only legitimate concern they have here is that they want what they consider to be their land (obviously I exclude anything within Israel from that). They've been told for over 50 years now that if they stop attacking Israel, that will happen. At some point, someone has to listen.

This is purely a history of Israel being attacked. They are surrounded by godtards who believe they don't have the right to exist, anywhere or ever. If my family lived in the middle of that, I'd want the same actions taken to protect them.

 

[braineclipse]

I have little sympathy with a group of people that start a war, lose a war, lose territory in that war, then want the international community to apply the law of takesies backsies.

I know your response will be that those people may not have voted for those that fought the war but that's democracy for you. We're about to have a Labour government that's going to do all sorts of unconscionable stuff and those that didn't vote for them will just have to live with it.

I've made this point way back in this discussion, but I'll restate it. The lack of empathy/sympathy and understanding on both sides is to me an important part of why this conflict is so long lasting and terrible.

If you can look at the history of this conflict, and the history does matter, and not end up having sympathy for the Palestinians that's the problem. And it happens on both sides.

The people who want more atrocities from Hamas blatantly obviously do not have sympathy for the problems of Israel or the struggles and historic suffering of the Jewish people. Just like you have little sympathy for the Palestinians and accept and encourage the continued suffering and deaths of Palestinians.

No doubt if the military power and international relationships were reversed, if it was Palestinians doing to Israel what Israel are doing to Palestinians there would be mirror universe Scara to disagree with. Someone who had little sympathy for the Israelis and their struggles. Those people no doubt already exist in this universe too on he Palestinian side. I disagree with them as much as I do with you.

Us as humans being able to look at a large group of suffering people with little sympathy, empathy and understanding is the problem.

One of the reasons my lack of religious belief grows stronger is that there's no way an omnipotent and omnibenevolent entity would make it this easy for us to switch off our sympathy for suffering human beings. And that's not a "them" problem. It's not something Muslims do or a Jews do or Christians do. It's something members of every group does.

 

[Lost Mango]

Until we try that we'll never know.

It's the obvious first step though.

I think we do, from people like Begin, Sharon and Netanyahu saying repeatedly that they would never allow a Palestinian state and plenty of sources (including Israeli ones) showing that the reason Oslo and various peace accords have failed is from the Israeli government acting in bad faith.

https://carnegieendowment.org/sada/89215

It's now clear: the Oslo peace accords were wrecked by Netanyahu's bad faith | Avi Shlaim

Avi Shlaim: I thought the peace accords 20 years ago could work, but Israel used them as cover for its colonial project in Palestine

www.theguardian.com

https://www.corteidh.or.cr/tablas/r32517.pdf

https://www.jstor.org/stable/41805448

 

[scaramanga]

I've made this point way back in this discussion, but I'll restate it. The lack of empathy/sympathy and understanding on both sides is to me an important part of why this conflict is so long lasting and terrible.

If you can look at the history of this conflict, and the history does matter, and not end up having sympathy for the Palestinians that's the problem. And it happens on both sides.

The people who want more atrocities from Hamas blatantly obviously do not have sympathy for the problems of Israel or the struggles and historic suffering of the Jewish people. Just like you have little sympathy for the Palestinians and accept and encourage the continued suffering and deaths of Palestinians.

No doubt if the military power and international relationships were reversed, if it was Palestinians doing to Israel what Israel are doing to Palestinians there would be mirror universe Scara to disagree with. Someone who had little sympathy for the Israelis and their struggles. Those people no doubt already exist in this universe too on he Palestinian side. I disagree with them as much as I do with you.

Us as humans being able to look at a large group of suffering people with little sympathy, empathy and understanding is the problem.

One of the reasons my lack of religious belief grows stronger is that there's no way an omnipotent and omnibenevolent entity would make it this easy for us to switch off our sympathy for suffering human beings. And that's not a "them" problem. It's not something Muslims do or a Jews do or Christians do. It's something members of every group does.

I think I see where your misunderstanding of the situation comes from.

You mention a hypothetical world where the power and the actions are reversed. But if the power were reversed, there would be no Israel. No drawn out peace discussions, no breakdowns, there just would be no Israel whatsoever.

 

[scaramanga]

I think we do, from people like Begin, Sharon and Netanyahu saying repeatedly that they would never allow a Palestinian state and plenty of sources (including Israeli ones) showing that the reason Oslo and various peace accords have failed is from the Israeli government acting in bad faith.

https://carnegieendowment.org/sada/89215

It's now clear: the Oslo peace accords were wrecked by Netanyahu's bad faith | Avi Shlaim

Avi Shlaim: I thought the peace accords 20 years ago could work, but Israel used them as cover for its colonial project in Palestine

www.theguardian.com

https://www.corteidh.or.cr/tablas/r32517.pdf

https://www.jstor.org/stable/41805448

Yet, peace was very close before Hams took over in Gaza. Peace talks were progressing well.

Then the people of Gaza voted for a government that denies Israel's right to exist.

 

[Bullet]

Us as humans being able to look at a large group of suffering people with little sympathy, empathy and understanding is the problem.

Scaramanga proudly admits he has no sympathy nor empathy for anyone and is half way down the socio path.

I don't want to trivialise the situation, but it is a bit like a Gooner in a flat above Chick King, watching all the Spurs and Wet Spam fans walking past. He throws a brick at a Spam and sits back to watch the violence explode. The Spam fans say Spurs started it, the Spurs fans say the Spam fans went crazy and deserve putting in their place (annihilating) and the Goon sits there with his popcorn.

 

[Rorschach]

Scaramanga proudly admits he has no sympathy nor empathy for anyone and is half way down the socio path.

I don't want to trivialise the situation, but it is a bit like a Gooner in a flat above Chick King, watching all the Spurs and Wet Spam fans walking past. He throws a brick at a Spam and sits back to watch the violence explode. The Spam fans say Spurs started it, the Spurs fans say the Spam fans went crazy and deserve putting in their place (annihilating) and the Goon sits there with his popcorn.

 

[Bullet]

You're right, I don't detect aggressive and reckless behaviour, but I do detect manipulative behaviour, narcissism and superficial charm.

 

[LutonSpurs]

You're right, I don't detect aggressive and reckless behaviour, but I do detect manipulative behaviour, narcissism and superficial charm.

It is not real, it is just internet anon keyboard bravado. the guy is probably a frightened weasel in real life.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

My maternal grandfather was Jewish and my family and I have many friends of Jewish heritage although only about half are practising their faith. I've always been pro Israeli but understand the Palestinian position and have some sympathy for them. The current reaction of the Isreali government does appear to be extreme and I believe will lose them a lot of support around the world. I've no idea how this complex problem can be resolved with the extremist on both sides being unlikely to meet and live in a workable peace for both sides.

 

[Lost Mango]

Yet, peace was very close before Hams took over in Gaza. Peace talks were progressing well.

Then the people of Gaza voted for a government that denies Israel's right to exist.

It really wasn't. they really weren't. The goals kept be changed and only one side were expected to stick to their deadlines.

Funny how we only like democracy when it elects people we like. Israel and the West backed Fatah/Palestinian Authority and the people rejected them so instead of working with Hamas and trying to moderate the situation Israel and the West refused to engage, shut down the border, created near starvation conditions and wondered why things went to brick.

Funny how you keep throwing in Hamas's position about Israel not having the right to exist as a key factor when Israel refuses to recognise the Palestinian right to exist as a State. "From the River to the Sea" was a Likud party line a decade before Hamas started using it.

 

[markysimmo]

I see ISIS claiming responsibility for the Moscow terror attack yesterday
Wonder how Putin will deal with this situation

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-68642036

• At least 60 people are dead and more than 100 are wounded after gunmen open fired at a rock concert at Crocus City Hall in a suburb of Moscow on Friday, Russian intelligence says
• A large fire broke out in the building, causing part of the roof near the theatre to collapse, but is now said to be mostly extinguished

• Islamic State group has claimed it carried out the attack, and said those responsible escaped.
• The US says there is no reason to doubt this claim, with the White House saying it warned Russia of a potential attack on "large gatherings" in Moscow earlier this month
• Russia has not commented
• Ukraine - currently at war with Russia - has denied any involvement
• Video footage obtained by the BBC shows the attackers firing indiscriminately at screaming civilians trying to run away while several explosions can be heard
• Security has tightened with events cancelled across Russia as the county's national guard searches for the attackers
• President Putin has not addressed the nation directly, but according to a deputy has wished those injured a speedy recovery

 

[Baleforce]

How very odd.

Why attack Russia, they have a shared enemy?

And it’s Russia, terrorist acts there are normally committed by…. Russia.

Not sure what to believe.

 

[markysimmo]

How very odd.

Why attack Russia, they have a shared enemy?

And it’s Russia, terrorist acts there are normally committed by…. Russia.

Not sure what to believe.

Strange as you say

 

[Robbo]

I see ISIS claiming responsibility for the Moscow terror attack yesterday
Wonder how Putin will deal with this situation

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-68642036

• At least 60 people are dead and more than 100 are wounded after gunmen open fired at a rock concert at Crocus City Hall in a suburb of Moscow on Friday, Russian intelligence says
• A large fire broke out in the building, causing part of the roof near the theatre to collapse, but is now said to be mostly extinguished
• Islamic State group has claimed it carried out the attack, and said those responsible escaped.
• The US says there is no reason to doubt this claim, with the White House saying it warned Russia of a potential attack on "large gatherings" in Moscow earlier this month
• Russia has not commented
• Ukraine - currently at war with Russia - has denied any involvement
• Video footage obtained by the BBC shows the attackers firing indiscriminately at screaming civilians trying to run away while several explosions can be heard
• Security has tightened with events cancelled across Russia as the county's national guard searches for the attackers
• President Putin has not addressed the nation directly, but according to a deputy has wished those injured a speedy recovery

More missiles for Ukraine, likely. They'll spin it into being a Ukrainian terrorist attack.

 

[Jordinho]

More missiles for Ukraine, likely. They'll spin it into being a Ukrainian terrorist attack.

FSB already claiming to have arrested some of people responsible as they were trying to flee to Ukraine.

 

[Robbo]

FSB already claiming to have arrested some of people responsible as they were trying to flee to Ukraine.

How surprising. Putin being Putin there.

 

[Grays_1890]

How very odd.

Why attack Russia, they have a shared enemy?

And it’s Russia, terrorist acts there are normally committed by…. Russia.

Not sure what to believe.

Mass native Muslim population too, largest in Europe although maybe in other areas so seems a weird place to attack

Also the fact they managed to round them up seems at odds with any terrorist attack I've ever known. Gunmen killing those numbers armed with automatic guns, just calmly get rounded up? No end of days, meet your maker final.shootout?

Not sure given the nature of any attack I've ever known that I fully believe this as reported

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Mass native Muslim population too, largest in Europe although maybe in other areas so seems a weird place to attack

Also the fact they managed to round them up seems at odds with any terrorist attack I've ever known. Gunmen killing those numbers armed with automatic guns, just calmly get rounded up? No end of days, meet your maker final.shootout?

Not sure given the nature of any attack I've ever known that I fully believe this as reported

Had some electrical work in my old home about 15 years ago, the sparks was a Russian my brother-in-law recommend, he had been in the army and hated muslims wanted to wipe them out, real nutter my missus went round my daughters when he was working.

 

[braineclipse]

I think I see where your misunderstanding of the situation comes from.

You mention a hypothetical world where the power and the actions are reversed. But if the power were reversed, there would be no Israel. No drawn out peace discussions, no breakdowns, there just would be no Israel whatsoever.

That's not my misunderstanding.

Even if that was my misunderstanding my point would stand.

Seeing as you didn't engage with what I said at all I won't bother with clarifying my opinion.