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Ross Barkley
- Thread starter Maltese Falcon
- Start date
90291Spur
Paul Walsh
From the little I've seen of him he is clearly a talented footballer, but I haven't seen him exhibit the qualities of A Poch Player.
Really? He seems to me to be the ready made replacement for Dembele given some similar characteristics - strong as an ox, two footed, excellent close control....in my view, he'll replace Dembele within a year or two
Doesn't chase, doesn't tackle, invariably takes the wrong option......
Pirate55
The Last Man Standing 17/18
Yet Poch still wants him! Don't you find that strange?
Gazza
Nick Barmby
Losses possession in the wrong third of the pitch.
All things that coud be coached out of him with poch.
Kyle walker was a poor footballer in both decision making and tactical awareness before poch' guidance. Kyle though had the skill set to be the player we all imagined he could be.
I don't think Barkley is beyond pochs ability, in creating a really good player. If we can hold on to our English core of players, we could have pretty much the whole national midfield playing for us regularly. Great for England and us.
However i do think for the asking price we can look elsewhere if Everton are being silly.
From what i read in the press, he is willing to take a pay cut to join us and is eager to work with poch. For me this tells me that he is genuinely looking to improve and be better.
A motivated smarter, Ross Barkley deserves a balanced case for bringing him in.
We don't know much about what Poch wants.
He doesn't appear to have been keen on Sissoko. He may want Barkley as a shot in the dark as long as Levy doesn't spend too much transfer budget on him.
A motivated, smarter Barkley would be an excellent player.
Unlike with physical attributes, we can't tell if his current mental state is his limit or not. It is a risk, and the price should reflect that risk.
Pirate55
The Last Man Standing 17/18
It is up to the club to decide what to pay for him. It is up to each of us to voice an opinion on whether we rate him and his potential. Personally, I do.
Gazza
Nick Barmby
I Think most people in this debate are questioning three things:
Is he worth the price quoted at around £40?
Has he got the ability to force his way into the first team and exactly at who's expense?
Other players are available for a touch more or even less money.
Why can't we talk about his ability? Michael Carrick has been the epitome of that debate of recent years and i think ross is heading quickly in that direction.
Currently he's not a very good player at all.
He has a lot of potential, but he's also been playing for a while now and hasn't really shown any improvement in the clear mental deficiencies he has.
He could be a very good player, but you can't claim that it's only up to the club to value the player - especially as the discussion is all about potential. Currently he's not nearly good enough for Spurs - he's a million miles from Dembele and Alli (the two positions he plays for Everton). So any discussion about the transfer has to be about price because that has to reflect the fact that we're buying potential, not a finished player.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
plays a bit further forward at Everton and I'm not sure that has been a major part of the role. Takes the wrong option on occasions, but not more often than not (as his chance creation numbers show). Clearly has a lot to work with, not the finished article but does have a chance of being a Dembele clone (although I would argue one with better vision and the ability to chip in with more goals)
Gazza
Nick Barmby
Some players are just smarter about being dim. But eventually you realise most footballers are quite dim in general as the truth usually comes out ... ala step forward Danny rose.
However i think its better to be slightly dim as a footballer as you just do as your told and that's it. Don't think just follow what we have gone through.
Pirate55
The Last Man Standing 17/18
No, it IS up to the club to value the player, not you, not me, not Danny Rose. DL together with Poch and the management team decide on a player's value - to Spurs. At this moment in time, we have no idea what that price is. So your argument is totally premature at best.
You have said he could be a very good player. That's the fundamental point. Everything else is for the club, not you, to decide.
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Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
I think your first sentence is a stretch of the truth; Barkley is (or at least was until making clear he was leaving) a first choice starter for the 7th best team in England and not only that but a player considered to be one of their best 2 or 3 players. He is already a good player. The potential he has is to become a great player.
I think you over state and over value the 'mental' deficiency. It really isn't difficult to fix, especially in a player who does make excellent passes more than half of the time and completes his attempted dribbles more than half of the time. IMO it is just a simple matter of attempting things in the right areas of the pitch.
I would imagine that Poch would love to get his coaching hands on Barkley as he naturally has all of those attributes that Poch cannot teach and lacks only the things that Poch is able to teach.
milo
Jack L. Jones
The price is an important consideration though. At the right price, he becomes a low risk signing who can be moved on for the same money or a profit after a season or two if it doesn't work out.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Morning all.
Its been 4 years since I posted and my log in still works, who would have thought?!
Scara, I think you've got a bit carried away on Barkley.
I do agree he has big potential. I do not agree he is "not very good at all" (I actually think he is very good when on form, albeit inconsistent). Though its fair to say his development has stalled.
His debut season was under Moyes, a vastly over rated manager who is from the Pulis/Allardyce school of "whatever you do dont lose", not the "why dont we try and win this?" alternative.
I dont think Moyes is a good fit for Barkleys play style, though to be fair he did look promising under him.
Then came Martinez for the next three seasons. A manager well known for his considered tactics, well implemented system of play, balance of team, and development of youth. No, wait, thats Pochettino Im thinking of. Martinez is a hack who gets early joy from motivational speeches and then just falls apart.
And then of course Koeman who clearly just doesnt like him.
Is it any surprise Barkleys education stalled?
I also think Barkley is oftern misrepresented when people talk of him in comparison to Alli/Eriksen/Lamela - for me he is an obvious understudy to Dembele. While he doesnt play like Dembele, he performs a very similar function, IE keep the ball rotating in midfield and try to penetrate forwards with it (by pass or dribble). He is a much more incisive passer, IMO, and while a very competent dribbler nobody can match Dembele there.
Barkley has skill, reasonable pace, excellent work rate, good technique in striking/passing the ball and good vision. He can see and execute passes that many players simply cannot. All of this is evident, though his achilles heel - it is all fleeting as well.
I personally think Pochettino could do fantastic things with him. He already has the work rate, imagine him actually being taught a position, and played in a side that understands that position and what Barkley can do. Its more than "arm around the shoulder" stuff, its educating the boy and putting him in the right environment. Given the success Pochettino has had intergrating players, I am surprised people doubt what he can do with Barkley so much.
As to worth, with this window who can even say what is reasonable? A year ago, £25m for him with 2 years on his contract would have been ok. I would have forseen this summer and £25-30m with one year and said it was madness.
Then Lukaku went for £70m, Neymar £200m, Coutinho being talked of at £100m and Arnautovic the donkey went for £20m+...
...and suddenly £25-30m on a player (I believe is) well suited to us, of a good age and with a huge upside when he realises his potential just doesnt seem so bad.
Its been 4 years since I posted and my log in still works, who would have thought?!
Scara, I think you've got a bit carried away on Barkley.
I do agree he has big potential. I do not agree he is "not very good at all" (I actually think he is very good when on form, albeit inconsistent). Though its fair to say his development has stalled.
His debut season was under Moyes, a vastly over rated manager who is from the Pulis/Allardyce school of "whatever you do dont lose", not the "why dont we try and win this?" alternative.
I dont think Moyes is a good fit for Barkleys play style, though to be fair he did look promising under him.
Then came Martinez for the next three seasons. A manager well known for his considered tactics, well implemented system of play, balance of team, and development of youth. No, wait, thats Pochettino Im thinking of. Martinez is a hack who gets early joy from motivational speeches and then just falls apart.
And then of course Koeman who clearly just doesnt like him.
Is it any surprise Barkleys education stalled?
I also think Barkley is oftern misrepresented when people talk of him in comparison to Alli/Eriksen/Lamela - for me he is an obvious understudy to Dembele. While he doesnt play like Dembele, he performs a very similar function, IE keep the ball rotating in midfield and try to penetrate forwards with it (by pass or dribble). He is a much more incisive passer, IMO, and while a very competent dribbler nobody can match Dembele there.
Barkley has skill, reasonable pace, excellent work rate, good technique in striking/passing the ball and good vision. He can see and execute passes that many players simply cannot. All of this is evident, though his achilles heel - it is all fleeting as well.
I personally think Pochettino could do fantastic things with him. He already has the work rate, imagine him actually being taught a position, and played in a side that understands that position and what Barkley can do. Its more than "arm around the shoulder" stuff, its educating the boy and putting him in the right environment. Given the success Pochettino has had intergrating players, I am surprised people doubt what he can do with Barkley so much.
As to worth, with this window who can even say what is reasonable? A year ago, £25m for him with 2 years on his contract would have been ok. I would have forseen this summer and £25-30m with one year and said it was madness.
Then Lukaku went for £70m, Neymar £200m, Coutinho being talked of at £100m and Arnautovic the donkey went for £20m+...
...and suddenly £25-30m on a player (I believe is) well suited to us, of a good age and with a huge upside when he realises his potential just doesnt seem so bad.
StephenH
David Ginola
He is a local boy playing for his club naturally the fans have a greater love/regard for him, like us with Harry!
As for him being good, bad or whatever. We will never know until he moves here, to continually argue toss about a player who may never kick a ball for us and especially after the amount of erudite posts on this is a little overkill.
He was a good player for Everton and has potential. Price, that is something that this season that makes little sense, with Sissoko reportedly costing £30m I defy anybody to find a logic.
As for him being good, bad or whatever. We will never know until he moves here, to continually argue toss about a player who may never kick a ball for us and especially after the amount of erudite posts on this is a little overkill.
He was a good player for Everton and has potential. Price, that is something that this season that makes little sense, with Sissoko reportedly costing £30m I defy anybody to find a logic.
Pirate55
The Last Man Standing 17/18
An important consideration for what? Yes, as to whether we buy him or not. However, it doesn't change the fact that it is up to the club to decide how much to pay for a player taking into account all the points you make. The price paid doesn't affect a player's ability or potential, which is what we can have an opinion on.
Let's take Sissoko as an example. If we ignore totally the price paid, does he have the basic skill set and potential (at 27) to be a good signing for Spurs?