Ross Barkley

[milo]

I spend at least 15 hours a week trading inplay in betfair in the evenings during the football season, I sometimes dont bet if the is nothing doing but keep an eye on it. Is different but the same Levy is watching and getting every last penny out of the market. It is something I admire about him, I wish he would sell the duds a little quicker.

But when it comes to buying players Levy has it down to a tee and fits in perfectly with where we are as a club, I admire the disciplined approach he has and it works. I also have long thought he likes getting players in at the end of the transfer window because he is then paying their wages for less a period of time. Though that can be counter productive as they do not get a full pre season under the coach.

I doubt that the sums involved are sufficient for this to be a factor. I think that it is down to wanting to push the price down, structure payments over a number of years and have a low fee with add ons. It would be difficult to do this earlier in the window because the selling club and player are going to want to see if a richer club comes in and betters the deal.

 

[milo]

That strategy works when buying many players not when we are looking at one out two top quality players.

Same arena the player can wait and get more wages in the next window, happens all the time.

We are looking for a a few squad players. I think that our strategy fits these types of signings. It is not worth overpaying for them because there will be a reasonably high turnover of squad filler and we want to turn a profit on them.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I also think clubs now look out for who we want to sign and guzump us. We have a great recruitment record (Sissoko aside), why wouldn't clubs with money and less effective scouting use our insight?

Its not relevant to RB as our interest has been telegraphed for weeks. In this case I think Manager and player want to work with each other. Just need the chairmen to do likewise.

 

[Pirate55]

K oeman apparently now saying that no bid has yet been received for Barkley. Unbelievable.

 

[SpurMeUp]

K oeman apparently now saying that no bid has yet been received for Barkley. Unbelievable.

It just means no formal bid has been emailed. Doesn't mean the two clubs haven't discussed 'heads of terms' of such a deal. They will have figured out they are too far apart, so why submit a formal offer?

 

[AdamB]

We have a great recruitment record (Sissoko aside)

We've got a lot right but in the other direction since the 2013/4 season I give you:

Sissoko
Janssen
GKN
Njie
Soldado
Chiriches
Chadli
Yedlin
Stambouli
Paulinho
Capoue
Lamela (when £30m was a lot of money)

 

[Pirate55]

Which signings are you using as a benchmark here?

The market for the players that are better than we have currently - or at least are not dissimilar in quality. These make up a reasonably small pool of players, especially if we want them to make a significant contribution this season. Then, their number will be further whittled down by the actual players Poch wants. And then further reduced by what Levy will pay, especially in terms of wages. This will leave a very small pool indeed.

If we aren't even prepared to pay the market price for this small group, then we will be left with no recruits at all. To say that we need to find a "bargain" among other Googlistas is just not really going to take us further up the road. Yes, we have done it once or twice, but to think we can keep coming up with first team squad players at yesterday"s prices is ridiculous.

 

[Pirate55]

We've got a lot right but in the other direction since the 2013/4 season I give you:

Sissoko
Janssen
GKN
Njie
Soldado
Chiriches
Chadli
Yedlin
Stambouli
Paulinho
Capoue
Lamela (when £30m was a lot of money)

Thats why I would prefer us to stick to domestic market players. Our major recent successes (Son and Lloris aside) have all come from the English leagues - Toby, Delle, Wanyama, Tripps, Davies, Vorm. So I think we should concentrate on players like Barkley, Sessingnon, King, Gray etc. Less risk of failure imo. Only Sissy on the above list comes into that category - and I am still praying that he might come good this season (although don't realistically expect it to happen),

 

[Raziel]

We've got a lot right but in the other direction since the 2013/4 season I give you:

Sissoko
Janssen
GKN
Njie
Soldado
Chiriches
Chadli
Yedlin
Stambouli
Paulinho
Capoue
Lamela (when £30m was a lot of money)

No idea why you have Chadli in that list? And someone could do the math, but I'm sure if you add that up, in & out, we are probably not far from breaking even.

And for that list, there is a list with Dier, Dele, Toby, Son, Eriksen, Wanyama, Jan, Lloris, etc.

 

[AdamB]

No idea why you have Chadli in that list? And someone could do the math, but I'm sure if you add that up, in & out, we are probably not far from breaking even.

And for that list, there is a list with Dier, Dele, Toby, Son, Eriksen, Wanyama, Jan, Lloris, etc.

That's why I said 'We've got a lot right but in the other direction' but I was responding to someone's point that you could just copy our transfer moves and gazump us. We've done some very good deals, but we've also done some awful ones

 

[milo]

The market for the players that are better than we have currently - or at least are not dissimilar in quality. These make up a reasonably small pool of players, especially if we want them to make a significant contribution this season. Then, their number will be further whittled down by the actual players Poch wants. And then further reduced by what Levy will pay, especially in terms of wages. This will leave a very small pool indeed.

If we aren't even prepared to pay the market price for this small group, then we will be left with no recruits at all. To say that we need to find a "bargain" among other Googlistas is just not really going to take us further up the road. Yes, we have done it once or twice, but to think we can keep coming up with first team squad players at yesterday"s prices is ridiculous.

I get that. Which transfers this summer are you using as a benchmark for the kind of fees that we should now be paying?

 

[milo]

We've got a lot right but in the other direction since the 2013/4 season I give you:

Sissoko
Janssen
GKN
Njie
Soldado
Chiriches
Chadli
Yedlin
Stambouli
Paulinho
Capoue
Lamela (when £30m was a lot of money)

Every club signs players that don't work out. Not many have as good a record as us for moving them on for decent money.

A lot of those signings were speculative, punts on youth or squad filler. If those were the criteria of the signing, it seems a little harsh to hold them up as failures.

 

[Raziel]

That's why I said 'We've got a lot right but in the other direction' but I was responding to someone's point that you could just copy our transfer moves and gazump us. We've done some very good deals, but we've also done some awful ones

Nature of transfers, I actually expect a higher failure rate now due to Poch's system as well as the bar of the players in our first 11 meaning it's hard to improve.

 

[Pirate55]

I am not talking about the Lacazettes (£52m), Walker (£50m) Morata (£60m) or Lukaku (£75m). These are all clearly out of our league.

Even, the next tier down, like Bernardo Silva, Bakayoko, Salah, etc are out of pay range - fee plus wages.

However, the next tier down (say £15 to £30m) is the new market price for players who are not yet the finished article but have potential. That is our sweet spot and the market we should be shopping in. Barkley, King, Sessignon, Gray, Shaw etc are all in that category imo. We shouldn't hesitate to get deals done in that price range. Ideally, for PL experienced players imo.

 

[glasgowspur]

Is there a chance siggi sell on clause is complicating this deal?

 

[SpurMeUp]

We've got a lot right but in the other direction since the 2013/4 season I give you:

Sissoko - the exception that proves the rule.
Janssen - probably good value in todays market.
GKN - TBC
Njie - probably broke even
Soldado - a big loss.
Chiriches - a small loss, but he's gone on to do well.
Chadli - sold for more than we bought him for.
Yedlin - sold for more than we bought him for.
Stambouli - sold for more than we bought him for.
Paulinho - sold at a loss
Capoue - has done well at Watford, but we probably took a small loss.
Lamela (when £30m was a lot of money)

Not big losses, and if you factor in all the other hits, then these losses are vastly outweighed.

 

[glasgowspur]

I am not talking about the Lacazettes (£52m), Walker (£50m) Morata (£60m) or Lukaku (£75m). These are all clearly out of our league.

Even, the next tier down, like Bernardo Silva, Bakayoko, Salah, etc are out of pay range - fee plus wages.

However, the next tier down (say £15 to £30m) is the new market price for players who are not yet the finished article but have potential. That is our sweet spot and the market we should be shopping in. Barkley, King, Sessignon, Gray, Shaw etc are all in that category imo. We shouldn't hesitate to get deals done in that price range. Ideally, for PL experienced players imo.

Bernardo Silva is the best player in that list by quite a bit imv. Yet he is seen as "2nd" tier, and I don't mean by you, cost and value are not the same thing in football.

 

[DeleHarry]

I am not talking about the Lacazettes (£52m), Walker (£50m) Morata (£60m) or Lukaku (£75m). These are all clearly out of our league.

Even, the next tier down, like Bernardo Silva, Bakayoko, Salah, etc are out of pay range - fee plus wages.

However, the next tier down (say £15 to £30m) is the new market price for players who are not yet the finished article but have potential. That is our sweet spot and the market we should be shopping in. Barkley, King, Sessignon, Gray, Shaw etc are all in that category imo. We shouldn't hesitate to get deals done in that price range. Ideally, for PL experienced players imo.

Shaw is on massive money so out of our range, but you make a good point overall

 

[AdamB]

We shouldn't hesitate to get deals done in that price range. Ideally, for PL experienced players imo.

Why do you think we have? There's quite a number who have moved in that range this summer and would have been better back-ups than those which we currently have. And if we cant attract them now that we've finished top 3 twice in a row, have a great manager, some big name players and can offer CL football, then we're going to struggle to at any point. And we're not looking at players who have gone to other top 4 teams - players like Gray, Iheanacho, Maguire, Michael Keane,....all would have improved our squad

 

[Pirate55]

Why do you think we have? There's quite a number who have moved in that range this summer and would have been better back-ups than those which we currently have. And if we cant attract them now that we've finished top 3 twice in a row, have a great manager, some big name players and can offer CL football, then we're going to struggle to at any point. And we're not looking at players who have gone to other top 4 teams - players like Gray, Iheanacho, Maguire, Michael Keane,....all would have improved our squad

I am not sure why. My gut instinct is that the club haven't fully come to terms with the seismic shift in the market. I hope they do before it is too late.