Bullet
Paul Stewart
Hi all, if anyone is or was an HR professional or solicitor e.g. @Glenda's Legs I would value some advice, please.
I work for a small company which is part of a group which is part of a group which is part of an enormous US group with hundreds of thousands of employees.
They are merging 2 companies and my role is "at threat of redundancy" which means I 99.999999% will be made redundant.
I don't really mind at all, I am ready to go as I have been there for 9.9 years and therein lies my query.
They said at my first* meeting today, that I will probably be asked to work until Dec 24th because we close the office between Xmas and New Year, so my last working day would be at the end of Dec. Unclear if that means Weds Dec 24 or Weds Dec 31. *I will have 3 or 4 of these meetings.
I started at the company on 23rd Feb 2016 so I am almost at 10 years.
They are 'offering' PILON (pay in lieu of notice) so rather than me working my 3 month's notice in my contract, I can just finish before Xmas and at end of Dec they will pay me for Dec, plus 3 months pay for my notice period in my contract, plus my redundancy.
The Mega CORP only offers statutory redundancy so in the UK (because I was over 41 throughout) that would be 1.5 weeks per year of service, capped at £719/wk = about £1k per year.
My query is, have I worked 9 years or 10 years?
Various websites say I DEFINITELY should take the 3 months notice into account, so my last day would be at end of March = 10 years.
Other websites say I DEFINITELY should not get that i.e. the company is offering me PILON which means I don't have to sit at my desk for 3 months fannying around, so they can bully me into accepting my last day is end of Dec so only 9 years.
These websites are absolutely adamant.
(Lots of websites talk about the statutory notice period being 1 week per year which would be 9 weeks which coincidentally would take me from Dec 24 to Weds Feb 25th i.e. 2 days after my 10 years!! But I assume statutory is a red herring because I have 3 months in my contract. I was also wondering if that should be 1.5 weeks per year rather than 1 week per year, but as I say, I think all that is a red herring).
I suspect the US megacorp is going to try to strong arm me into accepting it is only 9 years' worth, by offering me PILON, and will threaten me with "no PILON just sit at your desk".
So what is the legality and can they force me, I don't really want to pay a solicitor for this £1k difference, would rather just resolve it, but I think the megacorp might just say NO.
E.g. https://www.acas.org.uk/your-rights-during-redundancy/redundancy-pay
When working out redundancy pay, your employer must calculate how long you have worked for them based on the 'relevant date'. If you have been given payment in lieu of notice , the relevant date is the date your employment would have ended if you had worked all of the statutory notice period.
If you have a contractual notice period and you're taking payment in lieu of notice, the relevant date is worked out differently.
To work out your relevant date:
E.g. https://harperjames.co.uk/article/redundancy-notice-periods/ states the opposite
The notice period will only start to run from the date you confirm the termination of an employee’s employment and not from the date they are placed ‘at risk’ of redundancy, or some other earlier date. When calculating the employee’s period of continuous employment, the qualifying employment is calculated up to the date on which the notice is given. If the employee’s work anniversary happens to fall within the notice period, it shouldn’t increase the employee’s entitlement. You are only required to count the service worked up to the date that the notice is given.
I work for a small company which is part of a group which is part of a group which is part of an enormous US group with hundreds of thousands of employees.
They are merging 2 companies and my role is "at threat of redundancy" which means I 99.999999% will be made redundant.
I don't really mind at all, I am ready to go as I have been there for 9.9 years and therein lies my query.
They said at my first* meeting today, that I will probably be asked to work until Dec 24th because we close the office between Xmas and New Year, so my last working day would be at the end of Dec. Unclear if that means Weds Dec 24 or Weds Dec 31. *I will have 3 or 4 of these meetings.
I started at the company on 23rd Feb 2016 so I am almost at 10 years.
They are 'offering' PILON (pay in lieu of notice) so rather than me working my 3 month's notice in my contract, I can just finish before Xmas and at end of Dec they will pay me for Dec, plus 3 months pay for my notice period in my contract, plus my redundancy.
The Mega CORP only offers statutory redundancy so in the UK (because I was over 41 throughout) that would be 1.5 weeks per year of service, capped at £719/wk = about £1k per year.
My query is, have I worked 9 years or 10 years?
Various websites say I DEFINITELY should take the 3 months notice into account, so my last day would be at end of March = 10 years.
Other websites say I DEFINITELY should not get that i.e. the company is offering me PILON which means I don't have to sit at my desk for 3 months fannying around, so they can bully me into accepting my last day is end of Dec so only 9 years.
These websites are absolutely adamant.
(Lots of websites talk about the statutory notice period being 1 week per year which would be 9 weeks which coincidentally would take me from Dec 24 to Weds Feb 25th i.e. 2 days after my 10 years!! But I assume statutory is a red herring because I have 3 months in my contract. I was also wondering if that should be 1.5 weeks per year rather than 1 week per year, but as I say, I think all that is a red herring).
I suspect the US megacorp is going to try to strong arm me into accepting it is only 9 years' worth, by offering me PILON, and will threaten me with "no PILON just sit at your desk".
So what is the legality and can they force me, I don't really want to pay a solicitor for this £1k difference, would rather just resolve it, but I think the megacorp might just say NO.
E.g. https://www.acas.org.uk/your-rights-during-redundancy/redundancy-pay
Working out redundancy pay when you are paid in lieu of notice
'Payment in lieu of notice' (PILON) is when you stop work straight away but still get paid for your notice period.When working out redundancy pay, your employer must calculate how long you have worked for them based on the 'relevant date'. If you have been given payment in lieu of notice , the relevant date is the date your employment would have ended if you had worked all of the statutory notice period.
If you have contractual notice
It might be written in your contract that you get more than the statutory notice period. This can be called 'enhanced' or 'contractual' notice.If you have a contractual notice period and you're taking payment in lieu of notice, the relevant date is worked out differently.
To work out your relevant date:
- Work out how many weeks the statutory notice would have been. (EDIT BY ME:This says 'statutory' but I think it should say 'contractual'??)
- Add those weeks to your actual leaving date.
E.g. https://harperjames.co.uk/article/redundancy-notice-periods/ states the opposite
The notice period will only start to run from the date you confirm the termination of an employee’s employment and not from the date they are placed ‘at risk’ of redundancy, or some other earlier date. When calculating the employee’s period of continuous employment, the qualifying employment is calculated up to the date on which the notice is given. If the employee’s work anniversary happens to fall within the notice period, it shouldn’t increase the employee’s entitlement. You are only required to count the service worked up to the date that the notice is given.
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