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Ratings vs Liverpool

Jurgen the German said:
That essentially is carrying a team. I realise you need a strong back four, solid keeper and so on, but our points total would be far lower if it wasn't for Bale.
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disagree - carrying a team suggests, imv, that one player is dragging his poorly performing team mates to victories/points each week purely by himself - which has clearly not been the case with us as generally the other 10 players on the pitch have all played their part during this run, in fact id say it's a massive disservice to their efforts suggesting otherwise.
 
Hootnow said:
Lloris 5- Stupid stupid pass from Walker but if he's going to come out and try to claim it, he needs to make sure he gets there.

Walker 4- Regardless of how else he played, his mistake cost us the game. 2-1, we're comfortable, passing it around well, Liverpool look a bit deflated and the tired legs that would set in later on wouldn't have been as much of an issue. Such a stupid stupid mistake to make. Annoying because otherwise he was good. But in the end, the rest is pointless when your mistake effectively lost us the game.
Dawson 6- Decent.
Vertonghen 8.5- Outstanding.
Ekotto 5. Needed more of an attacking contribution from him. Stupid challenge.

Dembele 7.5. Good in the first half, not as obvious in the second. Should have been in the middle.
Livermore 5. Barely noticed him tbh
Parker 6. Release the ball quicker please.
Sigurdsson 6. Hit the post. A couple of good runs. Should have scored early on.

Bale 7. 2 great assists. 1 great run. Otherwise relatively quiet.

Defoe 5. Pretty anonymous up front (though a lot of it down to poor service). Blasted it when he did get it. And then came back to 'help out' and made another stupid individual mistake.
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I couldn't disagree with any of that. Pretty much how I saw it.

As predicted, Livermore turned out to be a poor choice and broke up an effective partnership. AVB got that one wrong.

I strangely think that Walkers mistake was born out the renewed confidence he is feeling. He's had a few decent enough performances of late and tried a stupid pass that a player with less confidence would never have even contemplated. Even with that Lloris made a total hash of it. He should have sorted that one out relatively easily. A double fudgeup really.

Defoe was playing for himself today which is a shame but he wasn't the only one. When we went ahead we were arrogant and naive in equal measure. That match should have been one of the season high points and instead we went all Spurs on it. Liverpool were no great shakes today and can count themselves lucky to have won. It was a gift more than an earned victory but I'm sure they don't give a fudge about that.

If we have won that CL was nailed on. Now I don't know. I feel strangely gutted after that though I know I shouldn't really.
 
Walker is not smart or good enough to be a right back on a top team ! If we are to progress as a club he has to be sorted out or replaced....Same can be said of defoe and Ady...We need a top striker !!!
 
Spur of the moment said:
Despite the errors that was a decent overall performance away from home, especially at Anfield. Until Walker's fudge up we were impressive, in control and looked like going further ahead. You wonder whether his mistake was a result of jadedness late in the game following Thursday night's outstanding performance against Inter.

Liverpool were always going to have the advantage after that, it gave them a huge lift because they were pretty much out of it but had the fresher legs and renewed momentum and motivation'

Lloris 6 - at fault for the second goal

Walker 5 - marked right dow following that fudge up but was excellent until that point

Dawson 6 - lost Suarez for the first goal but decent otherwise

Verthonghen 8 - Amazing tackling and forward movement plus a well-taken goal. Is he even the best CB in the country right not?

BAE 5 - frankly poor even before he gifted the pen. Too often looks as though he cannot be arsed. Right now I'd prefer to give Naughton another run a LB just to shake him up.

Livermore 7 - too many on this forum giving him a hard time. Yes there were misplaced passes but he put in a decent shift overall

Parker 7 - - frustrating the way he stalls play at times but worked his socks off for the cause

Dembele 8 - what a class act, that was some demonstration of midfield control

Siggy 7 - has really come on these last few games

Bale 7 - brilliant cross for Vert's goal but his purple patch may be starting to wane

Defoe 5 - lacking full match sharpness which may explain his sloppy control leading up to te pen.

Subs

Holtby 5

Carroll 6 - one excellent diagonal pass, should have been brought on earlier imo.
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So true. We have a winning mentality being breed into the team right now but I dont think BAE has bought into it tbh.
 
CelticSpur said:
Walker is not smart or good enough to be a right back on a top team ! If we are to progress as a club he has to be sorted out or replaced....Same can be said of defoe and Ady...We need a top striker !!!
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maybe we need to be an established top team first before we can start getting top players for every single positions

where we are we probably should be happy with good role players

but i have to say that in walkers case i agre entirely . have never really liked walker recently. defensively bad
 
Pretty irritated after that to be honest. We lost to a poor Liverpool team because of two sets of fudge ups. Walker-Lloris and Defoe-Bae.


The run had to come to an end sometime.


AVB made the right selection, it showed, however he can't be at blame for some of the silly errors that the players made.


Lloris - 5 - Shocking error. Don't understand what he was even trying to do. Doesn't look like he tries to put his boot through it like he should be doing there.


Walker - 6 - had a decent game generally i thought. Just the one poor pass across the field which i've marked him down for.
Dawson - 7 - Very good game. Did well defensively. Was a handful in the opposition box as well.
Vertonghen - 8 - Our Motm. Two goals. Both very well taken. Did very well with the ball at his feet. Good defensively.
Bae - 6 - Had a penalty given against him, but that was partly because of Suarez's ingenuity, and Defoe trying to assist Liverpool.

Livermore - 6 - Had an alright game, didn't really make any mistakes, but also no real moments of note.
Dembele - 8 - fudging immense. Has he been practising tricks all week? because that is what is looked like. Was a monster. More of the same please Moussa.
Parker - 6 - Decent game, solid defensively, not so great going forward. Classic Parker really.
Siggurdsson - 7 - Is looking like a good player at the moment. Adds quite a lot going forwards, unlucky not to score but i feel he made the right decision. A lot of interceptions defensively.

Bale - 7.5 - Didn't show his usual on the ball prowess mostly due to the man-marking of Lucas, however his deliveries from set pieces were the difference for us today.
Defoe - 4 - Was basically a short Adebayor.


AVB - 7 - Options limited by injury to Lennon, hopefully he will sort out another winger in the summer as a like for like replacement at times. Got it spot on imo, just silly mistakes by players cost us the points. Will be interesting to see how they pick themselves up at Inter/Fulham.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Let's be honest, Bale has been carrying us for most of the last 7 or 8 games. He couldn't continue doing that forever. One of our strikers, whoever it is has got to start scoring again.
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An odd comment considering that we scored two goals today.


It was not a lack of goals that let us down today, it was defensive complacency at times.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Obviously he didn't carry us today, most of the other games recently he has though.
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I don't get this theory that if a striker scores goals then he's carrying his team. Did Allen carry us in 87, Lineker in 92, does messi or Ronaldo carry barca or real, RVP at Utd? It's crazy thinking.
 
Rorschach said:
I couldn't disagree with any of that. Pretty much how I saw it.

As predicted, Livermore turned out to be a poor choice and broke up an effective partnership. AVB got that one wrong.

I strangely think that Walkers mistake was born out the renewed confidence he is feeling. He's had a few decent enough performances of late and tried a stupid pass that a player with less confidence would never have even contemplated. Even with that Lloris made a total hash of it. He should have sorted that one out relatively easily. A double fudgeup really.

Defoe was playing for himself today which is a shame but he wasn't the only one. When we went ahead we were arrogant and naive in equal measure. That match should have been one of the season high points and instead we went all Spurs on it. Liverpool were no great shakes today and can count themselves lucky to have won. It was a gift more than an earned victory but I'm sure they don't give a fudge about that.

If we have won that CL was nailed on. Now I don't know. I feel strangely gutted after that though I know I shouldn't really.
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I think we have had one foot in it at least, and would have really put some pressure on City. Some of their fans I though were getting quite edgy about us, until I read out our run-in to them.
In all fairness, 2nd or 3rd have never been my target. It is still all about finishing 4th in my book, thats why we badly needed the win last week.
Of the two games(Arsenal/Liverpool) we won the one that really had to, to put us in with a shout. We are back in a dogfight now, as expected, and its all about the team showing character to bounce back next weekend.

Arsenal will always have a game in hand now until April 16th IIRC, but its no gimme 3pts at home v Everton, as we will find for ourselves. We still need a few favours from other teams.
Chelsea still in the EL and FA Cup could be a big help to us. I dont anticipate getting any points from the game there,but if they start to get a back-log of fixtures we might snatch a massive point
 
harr1984 said:
So if a defender keeps his opposite number in his pocket all game but the keeper or someone else messes up for a goal he can't get a 9 or 10?
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It's harsh, but i'd be pretty sure that's how it'll pan out.


Of course. Defenders are rated differently to attackers for reasons i've been over before.


To re-iterate. If Striker misses 5 chances and scores 1 he'll get a decent rating.

If defender makes 5 good tackles and fudges up once leading to a goal he'll get a bad rating.


Attacking players get forgiven more for making mistakes because their mistakes are generally far less costly.


You defend as a group. You can attack alone.


I'm not saying it's right, just that's how it is.
 
Spur of the moment said:
Despite the errors that was a decent overall performance away from home, especially at Anfield. Until Walker's fudge up we were impressive, in control and looked like going further ahead. You wonder whether his mistake was a result of jadedness late in the game following Thursday night's outstanding performance against Inter.

Liverpool were always going to have the advantage after that, it gave them a huge lift because they were pretty much out of it but had the fresher legs and renewed momentum and motivation'

Lloris 6 - at fault for the second goal

Walker 5 - marked right dow following that fudge up but was excellent until that point

Dawson 6 - lost Suarez for the first goal but decent otherwise

Verthonghen 8 - Amazing tackling and forward movement plus a well-taken goal. Is he even the best CB in the country right not?

BAE 5 - frankly poor even before he gifted the pen. Too often looks as though he cannot be arsed. Right now I'd prefer to give Naughton another run a LB just to shake him up.

Livermore 7 - too many on this forum giving him a hard time. Yes there were misplaced passes but he put in a decent shift overall

Parker 7 - - frustrating the way he stalls play at times but worked his socks off for the cause

Dembele 8 - what a class act, that was some demonstration of midfield control

Siggy 7 - has really come on these last few games

Bale 7 - brilliant cross for Vert's goal but his purple patch may be starting to wane

Defoe 5 - lacking full match sharpness which may explain his sloppy control leading up to te pen.

Subs

Holtby 5

Carroll 6 - one excellent diagonal pass, should have been brought on earlier imo.
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Saved me doing my marks.
Downgrade Defoe to a 4 for his mistake and maybe give Livermore a 6 ( he wasn't good but he wasn't that bad either) and that would be about right imo.
Too many people downgrading players OTHER THAN Defoe/walker/Ekotto/Loris because we lost. If we had won 2-1 i am certain all the other players who werent involved in the errors would have got higher marks.
Our worst three or four players are worse than Liverpools worst three or four but we dominated most of the time and i think our better players are better than Liverpools better players. We have six or seven that controlled/ dominated the game-Bale,Dembele,Verts,Parker,Lennon(when fit)etc
We need a better squad, its wafer thin.
 
paxtonwolf said:
He never does. Thats his 'thing'
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Meh. He prayed on his own against Arsenal, and it both looked like he cared, and it worked; Walcott got nothing out of him. Sure, he probably doesn't buy into the whole enthusiasm thing, but whatever floats his boat.

Performances like the one today, however, are not acceptable.
 
We are a striker and RB away from having a title challenging team. Ive come to the conclusion that today was just not our day.

We had 4 key players missing, played an entirely new system, and only lost because we made two silly mistakes.

We'll be ok this year
 
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