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Politics, politics, politics

SpurMeUp said:
With respect, maybe you don’t fully appreciate the remit of the EU. It is based on collaboration and recognition of sovereign partner nations. Things you seem to broadly agree with.

When have we ever given away “all sovereignty and control” it’s a complete misnomer.

The sole thing we know we’ll get from Mays Brexit is control of freedom of movement. But last year that would mean control of 70k people who came into the uk....verses 250,000 who our sovereign independent country let in from the rest of the world.

Tell me again, how will this deal give us any more control, and of what exactly?

Scratch the surface and Brexit doesn’t add up. Leave is based on fear and a lack of understanding and has put forward nothing promising or forward thinking. It’s a waste of time that will make us and future generations poorer. But don’t consider the evidence...stick staunchly to a belief system over and above all else!


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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Erm , I DO understand the remit of the EU thanks; it's why i voted for Brexit:cool:
 
r-u-s-x said:
Italy chose to sign up to the restrictions - not different at all, in both cases you chose to give up some flexibility in order to gain something else. Italy are free to choose to leave the EU if they wish, they do not so have to abide by their agreements.

What you are suggesting is no different to ripping up debt owed because it was the last government who borrowed it, not good in the long run.
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Choice indeed. Italy could choose to leave the EU if they wish.
Similarly, the UK has chosen to leave the EU...
 
Choice indeed. Italy could choose to leave the EU if they wish.

Yes or just leave the Euro Zone - the point I have made all along.
Similarly, the UK has chosen to leave the EU...

Yes we did, I personally think we should have another go now it will be an informed choice rather than a load of pie in the sky but understand that others don't.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Okay awesome! What are you expecting to see from Brexit? 5-10 years down the line, what kind of benifits do you see from all this?
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A slight initial downturn as people get used to the new world, possibly different supply chain planning etc. Longer-term much more innovative global trade without EU setting tarrifs centrally etc
Financial services in UK to surge ahead of ECB in 10 years as Eurozone grapples more with national debt, unemployment etc.
No more "we can't do this or that due to EU red tape etc etc" excuses from national MPs and will be held much more to account for decisions/actions.
Watching from the sidelines whilst civil unrest/populism rises across EU zone as citizens start to feel more remote from the centralised decision-making processes; perhaps the first deployment of the 'EU Defence Force' will be to Hungary to quell anti-EU dissent there...
 
SpurMeUp said:
@scaramanga why can't you make non-EU products for export? Do the EU stop this now?
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Yes, the EU applies regulation whether we sell in the UK, the US, the Middle East or the EU. One of the main points in the "sovereignty" argument is that we should be free to apply the rules we wish to the products we wish. Of course, if we want to sell to the EU then those products should meet EU regulations but that shouldn't be the case when we try to compete globally.
 
r-u-s-x said:
but its only 100K people across the whole country its insignificant number to make an impact on overall wage levels, the only way to bring the wage levels down is more low cost immigration which isn't an option. You're in manufacturing? Even if all the 100K workers were low cost and they all went for manufacturing jobs that's 3% of the total manufacturing labour market. if you could pay 3% of your labour force £2 an hour would it make a significant difference to your costs?
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It's 100K year on year. Total migrants in the UK are a little over 3m - that's a tenth of the workforce.

If you phrase your question in a more accurate manner and ask me if moving 3% of my workforce every year (without compounding) to a low wage, then yes - it would make a massive difference.
 
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scaramanga said:
It's 100K year on year. Total migrants in the UK are a little over 3m - that's a tenth of the workforce.

If you phrase your question in a more accurate manner and ask me if moving 3% of my workforce year (without compounding) to a low wage, then yes - it would make a massive difference.
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"Massively reduced labour costs are the natural outcome of not restricting immigration to a handful of countries. There are skilled workers all around the world who would work for a fraction of what EU workers will."

2.2 million EU migrants, but they will remain wont they?

Its the new low cost immigration that has the potential to push down the prevailing wage and again 100K people per year from EU to non EU are not going to have a significant impact, certainly not massively reduced labour costs.
 
r-u-s-x said:
"Massively reduced labour costs are the natural outcome of not restricting immigration to a handful of countries. There are skilled workers all around the world who would work for a fraction of what EU workers will."

2.2 million EU migrants, but they will remain wont they?
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Not for £2 per hour they wont.
 
r-u-s-x said:
but it was one thing that almost all leavers promised in the run up to the referendum.
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*shrug* I don't want immigration reduced, it seems like the best way to get a good deal out of the EU, the public doesn't seem to care much. Sounds like a good answer to me.
 
r-u-s-x said:
Why would it be £2 an hour? the argument was additional cheap labour would push down the wages - 100 thousand people p/a are not going to do that.

http://ukandeu.ac.uk/fact-figures/where-do-eu-migrants-in-the-uk-work/
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My argument is that without the EU we will be free to remove minimum wage for all non-residents. Many of those already here are probably more skilled so that won't apply but it can and would to some.

Technically speaking we could apply it now to non-EU migrants but the administration would be prohibitive. After leaving we can simply say "prove residency, receive minimum wage"
 
scaramanga said:
My argument is that without the EU we will be free to remove minimum wage for all non-residents. Many of those already here are probably more skilled so that won't apply but it can and would to some.

Technically speaking we could apply it now to non-EU migrants but the administration would be prohibitive. After leaving we can simply say "prove residency, receive minimum wage"
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We have record unemployment, remove the minimum wage and I am not convinced costs would fall massively without importing a lot more labour.
 
The point of being outside of the EU and it's FOM rule is that the Government can take a managed approach to ALL immigration: if we need it increased for the next two years, do so.
If the Economy and population profile changes to such a way that we need to reduce it for a couple of years after that, we can do so. Etc etc
 
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