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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
A 10% drop in GDP due to leaving the EU would mean exports of goods and services to the EU dropping by more than 70%.
It's a ridiculous figure with no basis in reality.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
The defeat of complex truth in the face of simple lies, sums up the referendum. Its aftermath, people trying to prove how their outlook was correct, regardless of facts or reality.
That the electorate was deceived is certain. “The day after we vote we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want,” declared Michael Gove in April last year . The voters should not worry their silly little heads because “there will continue to be free trade and access to the single market”, Boris Johnson continued. Brexit will free us, added David Davis. “Be under no doubt, we can do deals with our trading partners and we can do them quickly.”
Instead of the promised utopia, we are in our weakest negotiating position since Munich. Far from skipping away down whatever path we want, we are doomed to trudge into a mire. Craig Oliver, David Cameron’s spin doctor, said that Brexit represented the defeat of “complex truth in the face of simple lies”. Britain is about to be taught that the trouble with complex truths is that you cannot deny them forever.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-that-brexit-would-be-easy-is-costing-us-dear
That the electorate was deceived is certain. “The day after we vote we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want,” declared Michael Gove in April last year . The voters should not worry their silly little heads because “there will continue to be free trade and access to the single market”, Boris Johnson continued. Brexit will free us, added David Davis. “Be under no doubt, we can do deals with our trading partners and we can do them quickly.”
Instead of the promised utopia, we are in our weakest negotiating position since Munich. Far from skipping away down whatever path we want, we are doomed to trudge into a mire. Craig Oliver, David Cameron’s spin doctor, said that Brexit represented the defeat of “complex truth in the face of simple lies”. Britain is about to be taught that the trouble with complex truths is that you cannot deny them forever.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-that-brexit-would-be-easy-is-costing-us-dear
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
David Camerons spin doctor, hmm, ok then.
The saddest thing about the whole Brexit thing is that from now on no opposition has to behave in a grown up and professional way. I understand that opposition parties or people of opposition views to that of the officially democratically elected government are there to highlight when things go wrong.
But after the way the losing side have behaved after Brexit I think in future it will be open season for people to aggressively derail governments, allegdely the are some civil servants even briefing against Brexit. Now I am sure that civil servants have been doing this to a degree for years. But the level it has got to now, for me it seems open season to plot against governments for ever more.
I will vote for Corbyn next time, despite him back tracking on Brexit(this week fudge know what is will be next week) I think some of his policies might not be good for the economy but might lead to a more balanced economy, but the point is, if he wins the general election will we have his opponents try to enforce laws or create new laws to stop him bringing in his policies.
I think democracy is dying and I miss the time when the opposition behaved in a grown up manner, it shows a lack of class to me.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Lot of rumours in the press that May is going to pay the EU 50 billion exit bill so that she can start trade talks. I can tell you what will happen, they will get her to sign a contract saying we owe 50 billion then they will not give Britain a trade deal, the EU are a bunch of gangsters and our prime minister is a weak useless leader. I miss Maggie.
Though she was big on the single market that this lot desperately want to leave. A 'Maggie Brexit' would probably look like the Norway option, imo.
parklane1
Vic Buckingham
I wonder if this is the same spin doctor who convinced Cameron that he could go to the EU waving his willy about to demand a better deal for GB and then had to come back with his tail between his legs.
There are lots of folks who can be blamed for Brexit but Cameron should lead that line.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Which I would sign up for.
Just do not think we should pay a leaving bill.
When I say I miss Maggie, purely in her strength in negotiations, not had a strong leader since her. But the whole no such thing as community she did was wrong, wrong then and wrong now. I am moving more to the left.
But maybe not bothered so much about left and right. I am strict on law and order but want a more compassionate equal based country. I came close but I will vote Jezza next time, just hope he stops wearing that stupid hat he wears in the autumn and winter.
My issue with the EU is it is a shake down plain and simple by gangsters, trade with them for sure but we should keep them at arms length, which in a strangle coincidence is exactly what we should do with the other nutter (Trump) he seems to like us for some reason, so hook him and do a trade deal but keep as far away from the nutter as possible.
It seems we'll definitely have to pay something, as we entered into certain obligations -- they just have to negotiate what that amount is going to be. I don't think it's a big deal in the end.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
50 billion is nothing. It costs us £18b a year to stay in, so we'd be quids within 3 years.
I'd say that's good value for getting shot of it.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
I hear what your saying it is just the principle of it.
StephenH
David Ginola
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
football fan speak
In the context that it's less than 3 years of what we pay in already
And can you put a price on freedom anyway?
StephenH
David Ginola
Your worried your not free yet?
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Not free to elect someone who will run the country for society, not the economy. Break the neo-liberal interests of big business. EU competition and state aid laws make it illegal to counter capitalism.
StephenH
David Ginola
How old are you @Gutter Boy?
I'm not having a dig, i'm just trying to get a bearing on your demographic etc.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
I'm an xennial
StephenH
David Ginola
As a Baby Boomer I can understand more fully now. I sympathize with your unhappiness.
I am though not convinced leaving the EU will solve as many of 'your' perceived or otherwise injustices. When all the dust settles I'm not sure what history will say about Brexit.
Probably it will be judged by the economists as to its success.
No change there then.
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Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
I know it's just as likely that Brexit will lead to Liam Fox's deregulated Atlanticism as my to degrowth paradise. But I want to feel voting in the general election could actually change something, and that perhaps we could even try both. I just don't like that the corporate interests narrows the political spectrum down so much that there really is no alternative. Even Corbyn (in theory a radical) can't nationalise industries, end planned obsolesce or implement a genuine industrial strategy, because of the capitalist binds of the EU.
My parents are baby boomers mainly feel betrayed by the 1975 referendum and what happened with Maastricht. They've be waiting decades to right that wrong. Is that context still a factor for you?
In terms of history, I think at least it will be compared to Austria not joining the zollverein (i.e. the secondary Holy Roman power leaving the rest to be unified under the premier power), at most it could be as significant as Luther's Ninety-five Theses (the spark that led to the overthrow of a decadent all-pervasive ideology).
My parents are baby boomers mainly feel betrayed by the 1975 referendum and what happened with Maastricht. They've be waiting decades to right that wrong. Is that context still a factor for you?
In terms of history, I think at least it will be compared to Austria not joining the zollverein (i.e. the secondary Holy Roman power leaving the rest to be unified under the premier power), at most it could be as significant as Luther's Ninety-five Theses (the spark that led to the overthrow of a decadent all-pervasive ideology).