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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

LutonSpurs said:
Imagine it was said about any other religions place of worship. The level of double standards in treatment is further solidifying we are not welcome here. Sometimes I think it will be nice if we leave before it gets full Nazi here. I hope not.
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This is a thought I'm currently contemplating.
The culture, tolerance, wealth, healthcare and protections of the UK have always been a really strong reason to be here - if they are likely to be eroded, might as well move to Thailand or Vietnam; the politics will be just as brick but at least the weather is nice.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
Hahaha

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There's a portion of posters on here who absolutely die on this hill. The level of dim needed to convince your self you are under apartheid here as a white person is special. ZIa isn't dim. He's feeding you this rage bait and the dim part is: the masses lapping it up.
 
LutonSpurs said:
There's a portion of posters on here who absolutely die on this hill. The level of dim needed to convince your self you are under apartheid here as a white person is special. ZIa isn't dim. He's feeding you this rage bait and the dim part is: the masses lapping it up.
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It's folly to dismiss it though. You can't fight feelings with facts.

His claim is overblown, but it does contain some truth. All emotion driven narratives do - to look at the extreme;
were the Jews responsible for Germany's post WWI issues? No.
Did Jewish people play a part in the activities that drove the feelings of despair within Germany? Absolutely.

The best response to people like Reform IMHO is to acknowledge the concern and suggest a path focused on tackling and eliminating all racism.
That immediately softens the position, acknowledges the issue, shines a light on the ridiculousness of extremism, and creates a position fascists can't handle - tackling real problems instead of dog whistling
 
monkeybarry said:
The best response to people like Reform IMHO is to acknowledge the concern and suggest a path focused on tackling and eliminating all racism.
That immediately softens the position, acknowledges the issue, shines a light on the ridiculousness of extremism, and creates a position fascists can't handle - tackling real problems instead of dog whistling
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The issue there comes in their absolute lack of wanting to tackle wider racism, as proven in their party and as seen in the lack of concern about wider racism even on these pages alone.
 
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MartyFunkhouser said:
The issue there comes in there absolute lack of wanting to tackle wider racism, as proven in their party and as seen in the lack of concern about wider racism even on these pages alone.
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I agree entirely - that's why I'd take my approach, because it creates a position where they have to admit that.
Shouting it down strengthens their position.
Creating the opportunity to fix it results in them having to reject their own argument.
 
monkeybarry said:
I agree entirely - that's why I'd take my approach, because it creates a position where they have to admit that.
Shouting it down strengthens their position.
Creating the opportunity to fix it results in them having to reject their own argument.
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True, but mockery is allowed....its all we have left in such a dire world
 
monkeybarry said:
It's folly to dismiss it though. You can't fight feelings with facts.

His claim is overblown, but it does contain some truth. All emotion driven narratives do - to look at the extreme;
were the Jews responsible for Germany's post WWI issues? No.
Did Jewish people play a part in the activities that drove the feelings of despair within Germany? Absolutely.

The best response to people like Reform IMHO is to acknowledge the concern and suggest a path focused on tackling and eliminating all racism.
That immediately softens the position, acknowledges the issue, shines a light on the ridiculousness of extremism, and creates a position fascists can't handle - tackling real problems instead of dog whistling
Click to expand...

While I understand much of what you wrote what would be examples or data points are there which make white people the biggest victims of racism in the UK?
 
LutonSpurs said:
While I understand much of what you wrote what would be examples or data points are there which make white people the biggest victims of racism in the UK?
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None.
The term biggest is the falacy.
But to tackle that falacy you have to understand and address the reasons why people want to believe it - which are emotional, not factual.

Most people when they are struggling feel that their issues are bigger than anyone else's - a logical position to take; it's a defence mechanism. It's survival.
This is just a political use of that natural human position, made bigger than reality, but set in reality.

So acknowledge the reality, acknowledge the emotion, challenge the scale and offer a solution. That destroys fascist arguments, because they rely on antagonism - solutions are their enemy.
 
monkeybarry said:
None.
The term biggest is the falacy.
But to tackle that falacy you have to understand and address the reasons why people want to believe it - which are emotional, not factual.

Most people when they are struggling feel that their issues are bigger than anyone else's - a logical position to take; it's a defence mechanism. It's survival.
This is just a political use of that natural human position, made bigger than reality, but set in reality.

So acknowledge the reality, acknowledge the emotion, challenge the scale and offer a solution. That destroys fascist arguments, because they rely on antagonism - solutions are their enemy.
Click to expand...

I can't acknowledge the fallacy when it directly leads to hate for my living in the country I was born in. I have to fight it.
 
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