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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Gutter Boy said:
What is the alternative? Keep hammering the £30-40k-ers? The ones whose security has been completely destroyed by the last 15 years of Tory and now Pink Tory governments. The ones whose take homes are now the same as minimum wage. The ones who are having to use foodbanks and sleep in cars.

The incomes not from earnings are the only group who have prospered from 15 years of extreme Reaganonomics. They are the ones who now need to bear a burden
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"What is the alternative?" Isn't a solution or a reason to do something. The alternative is lower taxes.

Incomes not from earnings? Unless you are someone like a royal, all income is from earnings. If i make £1 million, invest it, bearing the risks of that investment and it grows to £5 million. That is earned income.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
Inflation, lower economic growth etc. - that is a global phenomenon. These things would have happened here regardless. The EU are not a trading bloc. If that is what it was, nobody would have wanted to leave.
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...and you do not believe that Brexit has contributed to any of those things? It's a bit like proclaiming 'we're all going to die'. Well, yes, we absolutely will, however hopefully we take on practices which help prolong both life and the quality of it, right?

And just to be clear, you're telling me that the EU was not, in any sense, a trading bloc? It was/is several things for sure (a hybrid confederation of countries operating under some shared laws, but again, you are saying 'a trading bloc' was not one of them???? Wow. Alright.

I have always maintained that the way Cameron should've dealt with some of the issues and unfair constraints of the EU was at the table in Brussels. Instead, he chose to say that in order to head-off Farage and UKIP, he needed to hold a referendum. Whether you agree with that is obviously everyone's personal choice.
 
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thfcsteff said:
...and you do not believe that Brexit has contributed to any of those things? And just to be clear, you're telling me that the EU was not a trading bloc? It was several things for sure, but you are saying trading bloc was not one of them?
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The evidence that Brexit has had any measurable impact on the British economy remains extremely thin on the ground for me. Part of the problem is that attributing any impact is miles more dufficult when Covid and the geopolitical situation have had such huge impacts. What is clear, however, is how directly our own politicians can influence UK economic performance and market confidence now, which makes the situation far more easily volatile. What the EU gave is the certainty that decisions taken in Westminster had little to no real economic impact while the UK remained within the EU.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
The evidence that Brexit has had any measurable impact on the British economy remains extremely thin on the ground for me. Part of the problem is that attributing any impact is miles more dufficult when Covid and the geopolitical situation have had such huge impacts. What is clear, however, is how directly our own politicians can influence UK economic performance and market confidence now, which makes the situation far more easily volatile. What the EU gave is the certainty that decisions taken in Westminster had little to no real economic impact while the UK remained within the EU.
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I just added to my initial answer with regards to your last part above. Cameron needed to put the work in and make the necessary changes and moves from around the table. I will forever consider what he did wreckless...BTW, do you not acknowledge that Brexit was a key, key player in the current geopolitical situation? Regardless of opinions on it, surely you can at least acknowledge the effect it has had on world politics?
 
thfcsteff said:
I just added to my initial answer with regards to your last part above. Cameron needed to put the work in and make the necessary changes and moves from around the table. I will forever consider what he did wreckless...BTW, do you not acknowledge that Brexit was a key, key player in the current geopolitical situation? Regardless of opinions on it, surely you can at least acknowledge the effect it has had on world politics?
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I agree that Cameron walking away from the referendum HE called was unforgivable and largely created the ensuing mess that lasted until 2019.

Brexit was a global shock. And its ramifications are still being worked out globally. Nobody envisaged a situation where an EU member left.
 
thfcsteff said:
...and you do not believe that Brexit has contributed to any of those things? It's a bit like proclaiming 'we're all going to die'. Well, yes, we absolutely will, however hopefully we take on practices which help prolong both life and the quality of it, right?

And just to be clear, you're telling me that the EU was not, in any sense, a trading bloc? It was/is several things for sure (a hybrid confederation of countries operating under some shared laws, but again, you are saying 'a trading bloc' was not one of them???? Wow. Alright.

I have always maintained that the way Cameron should've dealt with some of the issues and unfair constraints of the EU was at the table in Brussels. Instead, he chose to say that in order to head-off Farage and UKIP, he needed to hold a referendum. Whether you agree with that is obviously everyone's personal choice.
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Yes indeed it is trading bloc, first and foremost. One of the main arguments among leavers was that if the EU was just a trading bloc they would have no problem with it. It was the closer political integration (eroding sovereignty) that was temporarily their biggest concern. Enough people were manipulated into thinking this at the time, that the EU was the source of all their woes, and so the UK voted to impose trade restrictions on itself. Turns out Nige was wrong on this, and now we are seeing him adopt the same playbook again, and the same marks are falling for it again.

I think you are spot on in highlighting lived experiences. The absurdity of GDP is that it hides growing inequality. A point you have made. A drop in GDP will disproportionately affect some people more than others, and that is exactly what has happened. The UK is nothing exceptional in this regard. The same thing is happening in other Western countries to a greater or lesser extent. Brexit, however, has exaggerated the effects in the UK.

(Some brexit impacts summarised here -> https://www.bestforbritain.org/brexit_impact)
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
On another issue...wealth taxes (on the back of Polanski's latest). The best example i can give you as to why wealth taxes don't work is:
- I start a business up and i own 100 £1 shares in the limited company.
- The business is doing well after a couple of years, turnimg over about £20 million a year and paying me a dividend and director's salary of about £200k a year.
- How are you counting this in terms of a wealth tax? I own £100 worth of shares on paper. But someone may be willing to pay me millions for the company.
- if you tax me based on £100 theres a huge loophole in your tax.
- if you tax me based on an independent (but highly speculative) valuation that the business is worth, say, £30 million, 1% of that is £300K. Which is more than i make out of the company and would bankrupt me instantly.

They are unworkable fools gold.
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Is that an example of something that Polanski has been proposing or something you've made up as a 'best example'?
 
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