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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

SpiderSpurs said:
Oh, I see.

She'll be gone very soon, you don't think she will or should be booted?
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I think it is silly season. And she is a target but only for the opposition. Nobody in the real world really cares- we all know she had to raise taxes, and we know that she tried to rein in spending, but it isn’t possible.

So taxes will go up further. Nobody will die.
 
glorygloryeze said:
Yes, as i say we could have seen the same in NI if the British army intended a similar bloodbath in Northern Ireland, you are again giving Israel's genocidal actions too much leeway.

Israel has asked civillians to evacuate certain areas and go to other areas instead. Then they deliberately bombed those very same areas they asked civilians to escape to: are you REALLY saying that is as as result of 'the realities of urban warfare'??

Are you also REALLY saying that the shooting of civilians trying to collect aid at given allocated collection points is also a result of 'the realities of urban warfare'?

Was the killing of unarmed paramedics in their vans the same? Shall i ask about the multiple journalists, aid workers and on and on??
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These statements are all reductive and one eyed though, that's my point. Yes, its a f**king sh*t show, but i really do not believe that thousands of israeli troops and pilots are out there deliberately trying to commit genocide, targeting innocents. What I believe is that they're there in the main following orders and with the aim of destroying Hamas and rescuing or finding the remaining hostages. Within the ranks will i'm sure be trigger happy extremists/bad apples but yes, this is the reality of sending thousands of young soldiers into a highly densely populated urban area that is also riddled with enemy tunnels, booby traps and where "the enemy" is indistinguishable from everyday Gazans.

You ask me these questions about killing all these people without acknowledging that aid workers, journalists and civilians get killed in all conflicts, that mistakes happen (look at all the friendly fire incidents in Iraq and Afghanistsn between different coalition forces) and that Hamas does infiltrate and use aid organisations, ambulances and convoys and the like to move weapons and fighters.

However i also believe that many in Hamas take up arms to fight due to legitimate grievances, including illegal Israeli settlements, a lack of international recognition, proper government and infrastructure and poverty.

Believing one side's propaganda over another's is futile, perpetuates conflict and leads to the scenes we've had to witness of a massive crowd of young people broadcast on the BBC urging death on thousands of people that have likely signed up to protect their country and people and are reeling from thousands of their own civilians being murdered, and raped, their bodies mutilated and paraded around as trophies like this:
 

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johnola said:
I think it is silly season. And she is a target but only for the opposition. Nobody in the real world really cares- we all know she had to raise taxes, and we know that she tried to rein in spending, but it isn’t possible.

So taxes will go up further. Nobody will die.
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She's making a complete pig's arse of it. If you can't see that, you really need to post on a different thread.
 
johnola said:
I think it is silly season. And she is a target but only for the opposition. Nobody in the real world really cares- we all know she had to raise taxes, and we know that she tried to rein in spending, but it isn’t possible.

So taxes will go up further. Nobody will die.
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It is possible. Just not with the current swathe of Labour MPs. Now Starmer's caved to the rebels, and will likely have further public sector strikes coming up after caving to their prior pay demands, he's got to get rid of those pesky fiscal rules that our Rachel views as "non-negotiable". As we know with Starmer, yesterday's "non-negotiable" is tomorrow's "rules, what rules?"

He also needs a fall-guy/gal for all the other flip-flopping that he's going to have to do to prevent the economy from eating itself, like the rumoured u-turn on non-dom status, paused workers rights amendments and the continued fall out from the not-in-manifesto Employers NI uplifts that have shafted business....he's been too busy galavanting abroad to notice the sh*t show developing at home. Thats literally Starmer's own explanation for the situation.
 
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johnola said:
I think it is silly season. And she is a target but only for the opposition. Nobody in the real world really cares- we all know she had to raise taxes, and we know that she tried to rein in spending, but it isn’t possible.

So taxes will go up further. Nobody will die.
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She has a choice of who to tax. And yes people will die. And poor people do care and they do live in the real world even though you seem to be oblivious to that world existing..
 
johnola said:
This overt antisemitism is really extraordinary.

And the fact it comes from immigrants is mind boggling.
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The sands shift all the time, the right wing have different targets now they they once used to. My grandad who was one rung under orthodox Jews in terms of appearance was spat at and attacked in Mile End area for decades by national front types.

I am thankful to Muslims for taking much of the heat off the Jews in that respect (joke)

But its one reason I don't believe that Yaxley and the likes are now friend of us Jews.........30 years ago they fcuking hated the sight of us
 
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Interesting I mention the rise of antisemitism this summer and am suddenly subjected to ad hominem baseless attacks.
 
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Silly McSilly Face said:
These statements are all reductive and one eyed though, that's my point. Yes, its a f**king sh*t show, but i really do not believe that thousands of israeli troops and pilots are out there deliberately trying to commit genocide, targeting innocents. What I believe is that they're there in the main following orders and with the aim of destroying Hamas and rescuing or finding the remaining hostages. Within the ranks will i'm sure be trigger happy extremists/bad apples but yes, this is the reality of sending thousands of young soldiers into a highly densely populated urban area that is also riddled with enemy tunnels, booby traps and where "the enemy" is indistinguishable from everyday Gazans.
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Silly McSilly Face said:
You ask me these questions about killing all these people without acknowledging that aid workers, journalists and civilians get killed in all conflicts, that mistakes happen (look at all the friendly fire incidents in Iraq and Afghanistsn between different coalition forces) and that Hamas does infiltrate and use aid organisations, ambulances and convoys and the like to move weapons and fighters.
Click to expand...


Silly McSilly Face said:
However i also believe that many in Hamas take up arms to fight due to legitimate grievances, including illegal Israeli settlements, a lack of international recognition, proper government and infrastructure and poverty.

Believing one side's propaganda over another's is futile, perpetuates conflict and leads to the scenes we've had to witness of a massive crowd of young people broadcast on the BBC urging death on thousands of people that have likely signed up to protect their country and people and are reeling from thousands of their own civilians being murdered, and raped, their bodies mutilated and paraded around as trophies like this:
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Actions speak louder than words. At this point i really can't be bothered to lay out the direct words of the likes of Netanyahu and his right-wing coalition who have mainly said out loud their intentions of this war.
If you refuse to see what is obvious and just simply paint what is actually happening as simply propaganda then i won't waste each other's time on this as you have some clear biases (and no doubt you'll be thinking the same of me lol)
 
glorygloryeze said:
Actions speak louder than words. At this point i really can't be bothered to lay out the direct words of the likes of Netanyahu and his right-wing coalition who have mainly said out loud their intentions of this war.
If you refuse to see what is obvious and just simply paint what is actually happening as simply propaganda then i won't waste each other's time on this as you have some clear biases (and no doubt you'll be thinking the same of me lol)
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Clear biases of what? Netanyahu has an arrest warrant issued against him due to statements he's said about starving people. That's different from the actions of individual Israel soldiers and the legitimacy of the overall military operations. Saying that, the issue is cyclical and Israel will never achieve its aims therefore I do not agree with the military operation and believe a negotiated two-state solution is the only way forward.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
Clear biases of what? Netanyahu has an arrest warrant issued against him due to statements he's said about starving people. That's different from the actions of individual Israel soldiers and the legitimacy of the overall military operations. Saying that, the issue is cyclical and Israel will never achieve its aims therefore I do not agree with the military operation and believe a negotiated two-state solution is the only way forward.
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The bias of not being able to see clearly genocidal actions and instead describe such as simply "legitimate military actions".
For example, asking millions of civilians to relocate to specific areas "for their safety" and then hitting those same areas with bombs is clearly wicked and genocidal and NOT simply "legitimate military actions" - unless those "legitimate military actions" include killing as many people who live in Palestinian lands as possible so Israelis can move in and replace them...

I agree with you that Israel won't achieve those aims, in fact i think "Zionism" is dying on its feet. A one-state solution where people of ALL religious persuasions and ethnicities have equal rights is in fact what will likely happen from here imo
 
glorygloryeze said:
I agree with you that Israel won't achieve those aims, in fact i think "Zionism" is dying on its feet. A one-state solution where people of ALL religious persuasions and ethnicities have equal rights is in fact what will likely happen from here imo
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Sadly that won't happen in our lifetime Benjamin Netanyahu & his ilk aren't going anywhere for the foreseeable.
 
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