Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Lilbaz]

I always find this one hilarious

Any Tory or reform voter comes up with this one

Guess what?! Being undercut is one of the epitomes of right wing capitalism! It is supply and demand my friend

Also it’s a load of gonads

Let me guess. Your one of those people that campaign against a minimum wage and votes for a capitalist regime whilst blaming Johnny Foreigner for the state of this country - and not voting for the status crap that’s had 15 years and 5 PMs to change… then saying we’re being undercut . As if it’s not bread and butter of the you vote for?

No. I've only ever voted labour. Was for minimum wage rise.

I am a social democrat. I believe people should be rewarded for working hard or being exceptional. I believe that you shoud have a strong government and that the people at the bottom should be taken care of. I believe that everyone should be given an equal opportunity to be the best version of themselves. But if they don't take that opportunity, that's down to them.

 

[Lilbaz]

All Torys and Reform have to fall back on now is selling the NHS to thier mates. Then anotehr couple decades of zero growth.

I was 16 when Torys came to power. Now I am 31 coming up 32. I have watched the perpetual decay of Briiths society to the point our NHS waiting lists are through the roof, no growth has happened,

I cannot afford a house and can barely sustain any kind of life. And I am supposed to work until I am (probably) 75 of or some brick.

Pot holes litter the road. Our society has been in decay for so long the repair bill now is astronomical. Everything is bloody privatised cos if Tory's aint selling the family silver we don't get anything.


I used to keep an open mind when I was younger that I might be wrong.

Now I see the reality.

The only real way of generating growth is Fabian growth. Borrow the fudging money and invest.

The Torys borrowed enough for Brexit, Covid, and everyting else.

Social democracy all the way or permanent decay.

NHS waitig lists and can't afford a house? Might help if we didn't have a net migration of 750,000 a year. That's a city bigger than liverpool that would have to be built every year. Just to meet demand.

 

[Craig_J]

I am a social democrat. I believe people should be rewarded for working hard or being exceptional. I believe that you shoud have a strong government and that the people at the bottom should be taken care of. I believe that everyone should be given an equal opportunity to be the best version of themselves. But if they don't take that opportunity, that's down to them.

Sorry mate I have been over the top

For me it’s honestly not supposed to make people think I am right or you are wrong to anyone

Personally I believe that with any right leaning person it is probably a caee that there’s different economical cycles that are suited to different causes. I didn’t like austerity but maybe it was suited then

But it’s the sheer stubbornness of my country men to repeatedly head dive into repetitive decisions I do not understand

Surely if after a period of austerity things aren’t picking up it’s not working. So naturally move on. Most aren’t even wanting to entertain it

Capitalism will always have booms and busts but right now it’s outright stagnation

If anyone is truly that frightened of investing because of the bust - may I suggest you might be closeted communists. And much calmer without espousing capitalist ideologies

 

[Lilbaz]

Sorry mate I have been over the top

For me it’s honestly not supposed to make people think I am right or you are wrong to anyone

Personally I believe that with any right leaning person it is probably a caee that there’s different economical cycles that are suited to different causes. I didn’t like austerity but maybe it was suited then

But it’s the sheer stubbornness of my country men to repeatedly head dive into repetitive decisions I do not understand

Surely if after a period of austerity things aren’t picking up it’s not working. So naturally move on. Most aren’t even wanting to entertain it

Capitalism will always have booms and busts but right now it’s outright stagnation

If anyone is truly that frightened of investing because of the bust - may I suggest you might be closeted communists. And much calmer without espousing capitalist ideologies

What capitalist ideologies have i espoused? Again i'm not a capitalist or socialist. I believe there should be a balance.

 

[Grays_1890]

There is 1 million (almost half)18-24 year olds in this country not working. 8.7 million in total (under the age of 64).

Economic inactivity

In 2022, the highest and lowest rates of economic inactivity were in the combined Pakistani and Bangladeshi (33%) and white 'other’ (15%) ethnic groups.

www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk

Without looking at 6:30 in the morning, I would assume that within the 1 million some of the 2.5m Uni students who don't work when studying make up a large bulk of those.

The 8.7m is slightly misleading because they are classified as economically inactive aka Sick, Retired, Full Time Carers, Students, Homeless etc

As I keep saying, in its current form this country employs around 7m foreign nationals to keep the country moving and have only around 1.5m officially unemployed so in its current form they are essential to what we need, especially when you consider there are approx 800k jobs in the market still which makes the available workforce even smaller, thats before you even look are relevant skills.

I am not saying we don't need more balance in this country, but foreign labour has been and will always been essential to this country functioning

Anyway, for the umpteenth time on here I have had my say on the subject, I don't believe that that immigration workforce is a fully self fulfilled problem like some whilst knowing that illegal immigration is now a problem but should not be conflated with immigration like some have done on here before also.

I will leave that subject be, people know where and why they stand where they stand with it IMO

 

[SpurMeUp]

Is there any shadow of doubt that since the Brexit vote and then end of Cameron, our government has been a mess?

It’s not even labour-conservative. It is what Brexit and then Covid did to any semblance of competence in our national government. We had almost 10 years of distracted incompetence where everything slid and government focused on getting Brexit done. There was a lack of talent, vision and determination to anything else other than deliver a flawed utopia of leaving the EU. It was complex and difficult and delivered less money for our government to spend. And it fuked our immigration too - how laughable. All the xenophobia that fuelled Brexit led to more dark skinned immigrants Racist Turkeys voted for Christmas.

Now we have a competent government who are stopping overspending and trying to right a decade of malaise. And we have a spoiler who caused some of the problems - in Farrage - who’s sold one lie and is coming back for more.

Things were far better when Romanian fruit pickers came over for the summer, lived temporarily on farms, before getting a coach home. Now we import people from outside Europe who don’t go home, and aren’t doing these kinds of jobs! Brexit is a big factor in making the UK less agile and adaptable. And Farrage should be blamed. He sold a pup. Now he’s doubling down, selling the next delusion to the increasingly disaffected.

 

[scaramanga]

I do have to say though it seems your standards are too low. I think we should demand more of our politicians then being narcissistic but not rubbing faces in it

If we want better MPs then we need to pay them accordingly.

There's no way you will get a competent and ambitious person to do the job for £94k - especially not in the South East.

What you get, is narcissistic people who do it for the recognition or the ability to sell off titles for comfy crash mats when they lose an election.

 

[Grays_1890]

If we want better MPs then we need to pay them accordingly.

There's no way you will get a competent and ambitious person to do the job for £94k - especially not in the South East.

What you get, is narcissistic people who do it for the recognition or the ability to sell off titles for comfy crash mats when they lose an election.

Something I do agree with

 

[scaramanga]

Something I do agree with

Imagine the fudging horror of constituency surgeries, having to listen to Doris complaining about her neighbour's wall whilst you know there is real work you could be doing elsewhere.

There isn't a salary on earth that could make me sit through that brick.

 

[Grays_1890]

Things were far better when Romanian fruit pickers came over for the summer, lived temporarily on farms, before getting a coach home. Now we import people from outside Europe who don’t go home, and aren’t doing these kinds of jobs! Brexit is a big factor in making the UK less agile and adaptable. And Farrage should be blamed. He sold a pup. Now he’s doubling down, selling the next delusion to the increasingly disaffected.

Just an anecdotal story on that, my mate is a food and beverage director for a fairly nice hotel in London and he took me on one of his scouting tours, we went to Kent to look at fruit suppliers and then a tremendous visit to Sussex for a vineyard. There was a community of pickers from overseas picking strawberries in the place we went to in Kent ( I think Canterbury) they were frankly amazing, the work was back breaking, they were quick, friendly and despite what people say were being paid a fairly decent wage as the hotel has to meet compliance on where the source stuff. We were speaking with the farmer (Hulme I think his name was) and he was saying basically what you have said, they come over, spend time here, created a community for the summer, earned a nice wage and then go home really well off comparably to their own standards. The day we went one of them was firing up a BBQ for their lunch, I cant pretend that I would wanna do the work but the communal spirit of it all was fairly inspiring

Maybe many don't but they all had Visa and were making minimal wage on what is, in reality a small margins industry which kept food on the table for a reasonable price.

Anyway was just an experience of what was a fond memory of a decent day, especially for the wine that came later

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Just an anecdotal story on that, my mate is a food and beverage director for a fairly nice hotel in London and he took me on one of his scouting tours, we went to Kent to look at fruit suppliers and then a tremendous visit to Sussex for a vineyard. There was a community of pickers from overseas picking strawberries in the place we went to in Kent ( I think Canterbury) they were frankly amazing, the work was back breaking, they were quick, friendly and despite what people say were being paid a fairly decent wage as the hotel has to meet compliance on where the source stuff. We were speaking with the farmer (Hulme I think his name was) and he was saying basically what you have said, they come over, spend time here, created a community for the summer, earned a nice wage and then go home really well off comparably to their own standards. The day we went one of them was firing up a BBQ for their lunch, I cant pretend that I would wanna do the work but the communal spirit of it all was fairly inspiring

Maybe many don't but they all had Visa and were making minimal wage on what is, in reality a small margins industry which kept food on the table for a reasonable price.

Anyway was just an experience of what was a fond memory of a decent day, especially for the wine that came later

Oz, Bomber, Nev, Dennis, Wayne, Barry, Moxi.......ain't no different.


Probably better behaved though

 

[Grays_1890]

Oz, Bomber, Nev, Dennis, Wayne, Barry, Moxi.......ain't no different.


Probably better behaved though

What a show that was BTW, my all time fav..........

 

[We are Tottenham]

Not read this but yeah the re-wiring of thought process in childhood and expectations for adulthood has created a diseased society.

I myself am on a repeat prescription for citalopram as is my wife. Pretty much 90% of my friends are on some form of anti depressant or counselling/other mental health treatment.

We've created an impossible society/life whereas just a generation ago both my mum and my mother in law gave up work to have and bring up kids, then went back to work when their kids were teenagers.

Now the expectation is that women have full time successful careers whilst at the same time the expectation for men (and what women find attractive in men) hasn't shifted, so you've now got a situation where young girls are told (you need to get a good job and climb the ladder, find a good hard working man to take care of you and not a sponger/layabout and have kids and be a good mum. While at same time boys are told you need to get a good job, earn enough time provide for your wife and family, but you're a modern man now you need to do your share of the house chores and looking after the kids.

So basically you've got all of my generation and beyond with both parents working full time in committed jobs and trying to juggle childcare and housework in between and its basically impossibly stressful. My cousin committed suicide 2 years ago. Just took himself to a cheap hotel and hung himself.

Sometimes I wonder myself what the point is as I often feel sick when I wake up in the morning at the thought of another day of just getting through chore after chore and task after task with no enjoyment then take the kids swimming and to the library on the Saturday while they're all kicking off. Arguing with the wife, doing constant house chores, shouting at the kids, then going to sleep...life just feels impossible sometimes. Like when i have to work late or travel last minute due to crisis at work and my wife is tearing her hair out trying to find childcare and then going off on one .......but i couldn't do that to my kids so I just keep soldiering on....

I wish I had your IQ ..seriously!
I agree with most of what you have written about and I am trying to read between the lines..I don't post on this thread normally as it has been taken over by left wing fascist!

 

[Gutter Boy]

Large scale immigration is always a ponzi scheme. And one designed to purely benefit big business. Social dumping is its true name.

Immigration though is also positive. When it is based on social rather than economic drivers. For reasons of compassion and love and study etc.

For me the key thing is to tie immigration levels to population growth/decline. Have a net migration limit which makes the overall population decline very gradually. That will correct our overpopulation issue, but prevent the dramatic population fall that say Japan are encountering.

 

[Grays_1890]

Large scale immigration is always a ponzi scheme. And one designed to purely benefit big business. Social dumping is its true name.

Immigration though is also positive. When it is based on social rather than economic drivers. For reasons of compassion and love and study etc.

For me the key thing is to tie immigration levels to population growth/decline. Have a net migration limit which makes the overall population decline very gradually. That will correct our overpopulation issue, but prevent the dramatic population fall that say Japan are encountering.

There is definitely a balance to be had for sure and I don't think anyone should be exploited be it local or international workforce.

One issue the UK has is that kids are not following traditional working routes and there are skill deficits in many industries, thats even with there being fairly lucrative and major offers for high paid trainings with guaranteed jobs.

 

[scaramanga]

There is definitely a balance to be had for sure and I don't think anyone should be exploited be it local or international workforce.

One issue the UK has is that kids are not following traditional working routes and there are skill deficits in many industries, thats even with there being fairly lucrative and major offers for high paid trainings with guaranteed jobs.

That's the longer term result of dismantling grammar schools.

The flip side of a better academic education for those more suited to it is a more relevant education for those not.

 

[Grays_1890]

That's the longer term result of dismantling grammar schools.

The flip side of a better academic education for those more suited to it is a more relevant education for those not.

I am a massive fan of "ready for life and work" based education set up for those who are clearly not academically minded. I also believe giving youngsters the tools and the prospect of obtaining money gives them more motivation than say shoving Shakespeare down the necks of every pupil from Thornton Heath

 

[johnola]

No. I've only ever voted labour. Was for minimum wage rise.

I am a social democrat. I believe people should be rewarded for working hard or being exceptional. I believe that you shoud have a strong government and that the people at the bottom should be taken care of. I believe that everyone should be given an equal opportunity to be the best version of themselves. But if they don't take that opportunity, that's down to them.

That is very reasonable.

I think we do that more or less in theory but not in practice. Of course we have a class system and inherited wealth that provides innate advantages to a few which causes some upset.

How far off equal opportunity do you think we are?

 

[Gutter Boy]

There is definitely a balance to be had for sure and I don't think anyone should be exploited be it local or international workforce.

One issue the UK has is that kids are not following traditional working routes and there are skill deficits in many industries, thats even with there being fairly lucrative and major offers for high paid trainings with guaranteed jobs.

I would say 'not being allowed to follow'. The gig economy has been forced on those generations because, well, extreme neo-liberalism. It's not a choice or what most of them want.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I am a massive fan of "ready for life and work" based education set up for those who are clearly not academically minded. I also believe giving youngsters the tools and the prospect of obtaining money gives them more motivation than say shoving Shakespeare down the necks of every pupil from Thornton Heath

What is being "ready for life and work" now? Being able to outsource all your work to AI and get away with it? Those evolving workplace skills come and go quickly.

Education is about teaching you about the foundations of every academic subject, and about critical thinking. If you have them, you can adapt to anything.