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**OMT Tottenham Hotspur vs Arsenal***

Man of the match


  • Total voters
    51
  • Poll closed .
Probably not a popular opinion but I think we really miss Dier in midfield no other player can fill the space in front of our defence or cover when players move forward. Our midfield has looked unbalanced this season and I don't think Ndombele is that type of player and Winks has been asked to play too far back.
 
Probably not a popular opinion but I think we really miss Dier in midfield no other player can fill the space in front of our defence or cover when players move forward. Our midfield has looked unbalanced this season and I don't think Ndombele is that type of player and Winks has been asked to play too far back.

A Dier of 3 years ago or even 2 years ago alongside one of Wanyama or Dembele, sure.
But sadly, i think he wouldn't offer much more than we have available in that dcm play, as he is often targeted himself as a weak link. You only have to look at his play there over the last 2 years both with us and England. Sadly, i worry physically he'll never be what he was, like Wanyama (horrific CM pattern we are seeing over the years at Spurs now:()
 
Just watched the game. A few observations. Sanchez was scary poor. Time for him to go out of the starting line up. His confidence is shot. Lamela was good, Winks was invisible and simply bypassed. Looked to me, as if we ran out of legs in the second half. We did a lot of running in the first without getting full reward for the effort. There wasn't much in the tank at the finish.
 
When Lacazette bought a foul off of Alderweireld but anticipating contacting and placing himself in a position to be fouled...what makes that any different from what happened with Kane? Players seek to get free kicks all over the pitch, deliberately placing themselves in a position to be fouled and yet they are awarded free kicks. Yet Kane did not get a penalty.

Is this another case of...anywhere else on the pitch?
 
When Lacazette bought a foul off of Alderweireld but anticipating contacting and placing himself in a position to be fouled...what makes that any different from what happened with Kane? Players seek to get free kicks all over the pitch, deliberately placing themselves in a position to be fouled and yet they are awarded free kicks. Yet Kane did not get a penalty.

Is this another case of...anywhere else on the pitch?
Yes
 
Sorry I cannot see how what I wrote implied that, I don't care about any team apart from Spurs.
Apologies if I misinterpreted the post, I read it as West Ham try harder because we are their cup final and that’s embarrassing for them, as opposed to me thinking the issue is that we don’t seem to be able to cope with or match the intensity of them or Goons in recent matches.

I’m still really tinkled off they were the first team to win at new WHL!
 
When Lacazette bought a foul off of Alderweireld but anticipating contacting and placing himself in a position to be fouled...what makes that any different from what happened with Kane? Players seek to get free kicks all over the pitch, deliberately placing themselves in a position to be fouled and yet they are awarded free kicks. Yet Kane did not get a penalty.

Is this another case of...anywhere else on the pitch?
Kane said it himself. I didn’t watch all the sky gonad*s and I find Souness and Neville sound like Spurs fans compared to most of their pundits but the foul you mention and the pen for them last season would have been great examples of why we had a valid claim based on how the rules have been interpreted.

Alli’s claim was the sort of thing VAR was picking up in the World Cup and there seemed to be a few (not unreasonable) arguments that Lamela grappling in the box should have been given against Emirates Marketing Project.
 
Apologies if I misinterpreted the post, I read it as West Ham try harder because we are their cup final and that’s embarrassing for them, as opposed to me thinking the issue is that we don’t seem to be able to cope with or match the intensity of them or Goons in recent matches.

I’m still really tinkled off they were the first team to win at new WHL!

And look at yesterday’s post match interviews, our lot were all saying what a fantastic team they are all over the pitch, and what a great performance we put it, none of the scum players or manager were saying what a good team we are or praising us in any way, they were all saying how gutted they are not to have three points,

It’s even more ridiculous because they are not a fantastic team, if you take that lots front three away the scum will struggle to finish in the top 8, they are a smack bang average mid table team without them.
 
Kane said it himself. I didn’t watch all the sky gonad*s and I find Souness and Neville sound like Spurs fans compared to most of their pundits but the foul you mention and the pen for them last season would have been great examples of why we had a valid claim based on how the rules have been interpreted.

Alli’s claim was the sort of thing VAR was picking up in the World Cup and there seemed to be a few (not unreasonable) arguments that Lamela grappling in the box should have been given against Emirates Marketing Project.
Deles one also looked questionable that it started off in the box anyway, initially looked to be outside. As for Kanes' the question is whether similar types of challenges are being given as penalties and from what Ive seen they dont and have wised up since Vardy 'won' so many penalties.

All in all Im happy with a point, thats two of our toughest away games out of the way and two more points than we got from the fixtures last season - whilst going through some form of 'crisis', I'll take that....
 
A Dier of 3 years ago or even 2 years ago alongside one of Wanyama or Dembele, sure.
But sadly, i think he wouldn't offer much more than we have available in that dcm play, as he is often targeted himself as a weak link. You only have to look at his play there over the last 2 years both with us and England. Sadly, i worry physically he'll never be what he was, like Wanyama (horrific CM pattern we are seeing over the years at Spurs now:()

I maybe wrong but I don't think Dier has managed to have a decent run in the team since the world cup, but I believe he's the only midfielder we have who has a defensive mindset and also gives us some height.
 
All in all Im happy with a point, thats two of our toughest away games out of the way and two more points than we got from the fixtures last season - whilst going through some form of 'crisis', I'll take that....
There was enough positives from yesterday for sure and City was definitely a point gained. Hoping we have an orthodox right back, vertonghen, GLC and N Dom starting our next home match as both our home performances have been pedestrian.

Only Liverpool and City can be happy with their starts although my heart is bleeding for the paupers at Emirates Marketing Project who are down to the bare bones at centre back. There doesn’t seem to be an outstanding candidate for the 3rd and 4th place positions yet
 
After the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game i said it was the worst display i have seen for a long while, yesterday i could see a big improvement and to get a point at the Arse is not a bad result ( considering how poor we were last week). Good to see Jan back, he is such a class player and showed it yesterday. Winks played well ( imo) and Son looked more like his old self.

Shame we conceded the goal just before half time as that lifted their half time team talk and they came out in a more positive mood then they probably would have done with the score at 2-0. I do not think Kane's was a pen but we have seen them given.
 
Forgive me if I'm wrong, or this has already been posed & answered, but Doesn't Toby often play right back for Belgium? in which case wouldn't it have made more sense to play him there and Sanchez in his natural position?
 
Probably not a popular opinion but I think we really miss Dier in midfield no other player can fill the space in front of our defence or cover when players move forward. Our midfield has looked unbalanced this season and I don't think Ndombele is that type of player and Winks has been asked to play too far back.

100% agree. Our defence has looked really shaky all season. We don't have the cover that the Dembele/Wanyama or Dembele/Dier combination offered. We really miss a strong DM. Winks isn't the answer in my opinion and Sissoko goes missing further up the pitch too often. It is striking that having had one of the best defences in the PL a couple of seasons ago, we now look a complete shambles there. Poch and his coaching staff seem to have regressed in that area - and haven't replaced our Walker with an adequate replacement.
 
A Dier of 3 years ago or even 2 years ago alongside one of Wanyama or Dembele, sure.
But sadly, i think he wouldn't offer much more than we have available in that dcm play, as he is often targeted himself as a weak link. You only have to look at his play there over the last 2 years both with us and England. Sadly, i worry physically he'll never be what he was, like Wanyama (horrific CM pattern we are seeing over the years at Spurs now:()

The real question is just why are so many of our players degenerating so much - not even just at DM. Wanyama, Dier, Dembele for sure but what about Trippier, Rose, Sanchez (after a great first season), Dele ....even Kane to a certain extent.
 
The real question is just why are so many of our players degenerating so much - not even just at DM. Wanyama, Dier, Dembele for sure but what about Trippier, Rose, Sanchez (after a great first season), Dele ....even Kane to a certain extent.
From being over played for a number of years? For the first couple of seasons Poch pretty much played the same 13 players. We've gradually added to the squad but he still has very clear favourites that he will pick. [emoji848]

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk
 
Right, so, I've given it a day to relax and think about the game.

It was a creditable draw, and that's two of our toughest four away games dealt with (the other two are Liverpool and (imo) Leicester). But overall, Arsenal were the better team - hard to argue that. And that was down to one short term reason, which will rectify itself over the course of the season, and some worrying long-term ones.

Short term -

1) We had no press-resistance in midfield. Arsenal were just far superior on the ball - they were able to retain possession, outmuscle us in challenges, and progress the ball past our first line of pressing with ease. By contrast, we panicked all game - the attackers were too far up, the defense left exposed to pressing lines of two or three players converging on the man on the ball, and a lot of panicked turnovers of possession resulted that put us under immense pressure. It's a pattern we saw in the City game as well - we can't handle pressure, *at all*.

However, I think that will fix itself with Ndombele and Lo Celso coming into the team. Both those players replacing less technically-gifted players in the likes of Winks and Lamela will help to no end in terms of beating the press, and I think having a press-resistant midfield will afford the defense more cover, thus lessening the problem overall.

Long term -

1) We have no defensive midfield - this is a painful one, but it's true. Sissoko is strong, fast and hard-working, but his positional awareness isn't great. Winksy's positional awareness is good, but he's too slow from a standing start, and loses too many of his challenges to really be a defensive midfielder. If the two could combine, we would have a perfect defensive midfielder. Alas, they can't, and we have a worrying tendency to leave gaps and yawning spaces in front of the defense that *forces* the CBs out of position to close down shots/cover. Not sure how to fix this - Wanyama and Dier are permanently broken (I'm not sure how Dier suffered such a catastrophic breakdown in his fitness but he has).

2) We have no distribution from deep midfield - the above tendency is compounded by the inability of our deep midfield players to play accurate long balls from deep. Xhaka is a macaron, but he gave Arsenal one thing yesterday that we lacked - long, accurate, raking passes into the channels for their pacy forwards to chase. Our defense can usually do this with Toby + Jan, but teams have wisened up to this and close them down quick when they're on the ball, because they know they have no options. They can't ease the pressure by passing to Hugo (he'll miskick it), or the flanks (will get to that), or Sissoko, or Winks. So their long passes usually go to the opponent, and we turn possession over.

3) Our flanks are a major weakness - everyone saw this coming. *Everyone*. And yet, we made the mistake of going with our full-back roster of Foyth, KWP, Aurier, Rose and Davies. It isn't good enough for a team at our level - I feel fairly confident in saying that four of the top six have better full-backs than we do, with United being the only possible exception. And given how much we rely on wing-backs to create overloads and provide width, it's a terminal weakness. Either get better wing-backs, or shift the system to not rely on them so much (for example, by shifting to a 3-man back-line and letting Son stay wide + Rose/Sessegnon provide permanent width on the left). We didn't do either, and don't seem like doing either.

4) Our players are just mentally all over the place - I don't know why this is, but for some reason, no one feels like they're on the same level this year (and indeed, since January 2019). Kane's strolling around up front, barely pressing - the defense is panicked into making easy mistakes and give-aways, and our vaunted press is *gone*. We fail to press, and when we do try, the opposition easily plays around it. Something's missing - motivation, energy, fitness or togetherness. But it's worrying.
 
The tendency from 2016/2017 has been a straight, continual, unstoppable decline - we've never hit those heights, and have lost major elements of what made that team great. A tigerish defensive midfield double pivot in Wanyama and Dembele - a peerless wing-back duo in Walker and Trippier. Pressing all over the field, with an unstoppable hunger for goals that never stopped - killing teams off 4-0, 5-0,6-0. And an easy confidence - a swagger that was self-assured and purposeful, knowing that the goals would come and the opponent would crumble.

Right now, our team's a shadow of that. And while a large part of what made us great back then is mental (confidence + energy + trust), and some of it is irrecoverable (the smaller pitch size and hostile environment of the Lane making our press easier and far more effective)...

...some of it is down to personnel losses that we've never rectified. We've now replaced Dembele with Ndombele, but we haven't replaced Wanyama. And we haven't replaced 16/17's Rose and Walker with anywhere near their equivalents, meaning we can't overload teams up front at *all*.
 
Right, so, I've given it a day to relax and think about the game.

It was a creditable draw, and that's two of our toughest four away games dealt with (the other two are Liverpool and (imo) Leicester). But overall, Arsenal were the better team - hard to argue that. And that was down to one short term reason, which will rectify itself over the course of the season, and some worrying long-term ones.

Short term -

1) We had no press-resistance in midfield. Arsenal were just far superior on the ball - they were able to retain possession, outmuscle us in challenges, and progress the ball past our first line of pressing with ease. By contrast, we panicked all game - the attackers were too far up, the defense left exposed to pressing lines of two or three players converging on the man on the ball, and a lot of panicked turnovers of possession resulted that put us under immense pressure. It's a pattern we saw in the City game as well - we can't handle pressure, *at all*.

However, I think that will fix itself with Ndombele and Lo Celso coming into the team. Both those players replacing less technically-gifted players in the likes of Winks and Lamela will help to no end in terms of beating the press, and I think having a press-resistant midfield will afford the defense more cover, thus lessening the problem overall.

Long term -

1) We have no defensive midfield - this is a painful one, but it's true. Sissoko is strong, fast and hard-working, but his positional awareness isn't great. Winksy's positional awareness is good, but he's too slow from a standing start, and loses too many of his challenges to really be a defensive midfielder. If the two could combine, we would have a perfect defensive midfielder. Alas, they can't, and we have a worrying tendency to leave gaps and yawning spaces in front of the defense that *forces* the CBs out of position to close down shots/cover. Not sure how to fix this - Wanyama and Dier are permanently broken (I'm not sure how Dier suffered such a catastrophic breakdown in his fitness but he has).

2) We have no distribution from deep midfield - the above tendency is compounded by the inability of our deep midfield players to play accurate long balls from deep. Xhaka is a macaron, but he gave Arsenal one thing yesterday that we lacked - long, accurate, raking passes into the channels for their pacy forwards to chase. Our defense can usually do this with Toby + Jan, but teams have wisened up to this and close them down quick when they're on the ball, because they know they have no options. They can't ease the pressure by passing to Hugo (he'll miskick it), or the flanks (will get to that), or Sissoko, or Winks. So their long passes usually go to the opponent, and we turn possession over.

3) Our flanks are a major weakness - everyone saw this coming. *Everyone*. And yet, we made the mistake of going with our full-back roster of Foyth, KWP, Aurier, Rose and Davies. It isn't good enough for a team at our level - I feel fairly confident in saying that four of the top six have better full-backs than we do, with United being the only possible exception. And given how much we rely on wing-backs to create overloads and provide width, it's a terminal weakness. Either get better wing-backs, or shift the system to not rely on them so much (for example, by shifting to a 3-man back-line and letting Son stay wide + Rose/Sessegnon provide permanent width on the left). We didn't do either, and don't seem like doing either.

4) Our players are just mentally all over the place - I don't know why this is, but for some reason, no one feels like they're on the same level this year (and indeed, since January 2019). Kane's strolling around up front, barely pressing - the defense is panicked into making easy mistakes and give-aways, and our vaunted press is *gone*. We fail to press, and when we do try, the opposition easily plays around it. Something's missing - motivation, energy, fitness or togetherness. But it's worrying.

Brilliant post you articulated some points I've tried to make so well. Bravo.

Midfield is cause of all evils, it is the heart of the team and if the centre is wrong then the allerorical blood can't be pumped around the body. We can get around the poor fullbacks and even the mentality can change given a run of good performances but the brick that we have consistently starting in centre midfield only brings the quality of the side down.

We need Ndombele and Lo Celso to be of the required quality otherwise are in for another season of turgid season football.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk
 
Forgive me if I'm wrong, or this has already been posed & answered, but Doesn't Toby often play right back for Belgium? in which case wouldn't it have made more sense to play him there and Sanchez in his natural position?

Don't want to be a downer on Toby but I don't think his legs are up to that any more, not in that kind of premier league game. One of Sanchez's strengths is his pace and stamina but he was absolutely fudged after 70 mins, looked like me on a football pitch after 5 minutes.....Let's look on the bright side, we've seen worse fullback decisions from Poch in critical games (I'm sorry to bring it up Son, we know it's not your fault...)
 
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