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*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Some european team ***

braineclipse said:
One positive from last night is that we did change it. Of course the midfield and attacking players that hadn't been replaced looked rather useless as they were exhausted. Pochettino for me waited way too long to change things. And we didn't get a performance or result from changing it. But he must have seen that it didn't work and he did change it.

Perhaps we'll see a change going forward. Or perhaps he'll find a way to make it work. I'm hoping for the former as I don't believe in the latter.
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He was looking for a way to get more attacking players on the pitch, that may well be the only reason he ditched the diamond.

On your separate point, it wont be the latter as that system is fundamentally flawed.

The only team that could make that work is the old barca side of busquets, iniesta and xavi as that side had the players to pretty much permanently have the football but even then they would have a soft underbelly in that system where they could be exposed.
 
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I see Poch has said its like we gave up a little towards the end!

Thats just plain wrong, going full ossie ardilles towards the end was the reason for why bayern were inevitably going to create chance after chance.

I am astonished by his apparent tactical naivety, to the extent he puts this on the players.

Pochettino wtf has happened to you :(
 
Pirate55 said:
Are you having a laugh? We certainly didn't deserve to be two goals up at half time. We didn't deserve to be up at half time at all. They were already showing signs of rampaging through us. Even Glenda pointed out that our diamond was a busted flush and wouldn't last for the whole game. We looked out on our feet after 30 mins ffs.
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Just read this and thought to myself did I say that? Really?
Oh well, it made me chuckle on what is otherwise a thoroughly depressing morning.
 
SteveAWOL said:
After our recent run of results I guess I’ve just become inured to defeat now and there was plenty of laughter on the train from White Hart Lane after the match, as if we didn’t laugh then I guess we’d have to cry after a thrashing like that.
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afsoc4life said:
I told myself that after that Colchester match I am not going to invest emotions this season. Thank YHWH that I didn't watch this match. The team - players and manager have to sort themselves out. Some are saying Levy is at fault for the contract situation, LMAO. I hear rumors that Jan cuckolded Eriksen, wow!! What next, Dele was cheating on Dier?? I am a Spurs fan and will remain one but I am emotionally stepping back from this until I get the impression that they are being real with themselves.
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Funny, I felt strangely separated from it all last night. I think I'll start to emotionally invest again when I think the manager and ALL of the players have.

braineclipse said:
Have to add. I feel sorry for a lot of the players. I saw a lot of effort, motivation, several players seemed to run themselves into the ground. They were brave, they didn't hide, they tried. Thought several players had very good games. Imo Pochettino failed them badly and they were left on the pitch having to suffer as a result despite all their best efforts.
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The pundits on BT Sport were calling it after 10 minutes. I don't understand how a multi-billion pound football club, with specialists in every area, can't see something so blatantly obvious unfolding in front of their eyes and attempt to change what's happening. And why we would start with that formation in these days of ultra-scouting and information overload on opposition teams really does beggar belief.
 
Daisuk said:
When did we last concede 7 goals in any competition? Last time I remember was when we lost 7-1 to Saudi Sportswashing Machine back in 97 or something. I was 12 and cried my eyes out. fudging disgrace.
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- Spurs conceded seven goals in a competitive match for the first time since December 1996 versus Saudi Sportswashing Machine in the Premier League (1-7).
- Tottenham Hotspur are the first English side to concede seven goals in any European competition since Spurs lost 0-8 to FC Koln in the UEFA Intertoto Cup in July 1995.
- The 7-2 defeat was the biggest ever margin of defeat by an English team at home in European competition.
- Spurs' 7-2 defeat to Bayern was Mauricio Pochettino's joint-heaviest ever defeat as a manager in all competitions alongside a 0-5 loss to Real Madrid in March 2012 with Espanyol.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...-thrashing-by-bayern-munich-is-hard-to-accept
 
Pirate55 said:
Are you having a laugh? We certainly didn't deserve to be two goals up at half time. We didn't deserve to be up at half time at all. They were already showing signs of rampaging through us. Even Glenda pointed out that our diamond was a busted flush and wouldn't last for the whole game. We looked out on our feet after 30 mins ffs.
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Agreed 100%. We looked good for 25-30 mins and probably deserved to be a goal up. But for the last 15 mins, we were struggling to get out. Bayern dominated possession and pulled us all over the place. We probably deserved to be level at half time but no more than that. And the direct reason we weren't was Ndombele's weakness in the challenge. He wafted a leg the first time and he should have went through the ball on the second goal. But that's Ndombele. We need someone screening the back 4 to do that stuff. That's been bloody obvious for weeks. Even the first 15 against Southampton, they were finding huge amounts of space in front of our back 4.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Agreed 400%. We looked good for 25-30 mins and probably deserved to be a goal up. But for the last 15 mins, we were struggling to get out. Bayern dominated possession and pulled us all over the place. We probably deserved to be level at half time but no more than that. And the direct reason we weren't was Ndombele's weakness in the challenge. He wafted a leg the first time and he should have went through the ball on the second goal. But that's Ndombele. We need someone screening the back 4 to do that stuff. That's been bloody obvious for weeks. Even the first 15 against Southampton, they were finding huge amounts of space in front of our back 4.
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Ndombele is not a sitting midfielder, to use him as such would be a absolutely waste of a talent even more so than using Winks as one, the pair of them need to be competing for the same spot next to a sitter in Dier or Skipp.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Said it up my nephew when we left... that was scarily clinical and everything they got went in almost

Every lewandowski and Gnabry shot did other than his Free kick
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Yes they were ultra clinical but even if it finished 3-4 that is still unacceptable as would have still been a self inflicted defeat.

With the right system and players we definitely could have won that game last night and in a manner that did not present bayern with the freedom of our new stadium pretty much from the get go, which only worsened when tactical blunder was followed by tactical blunder.
 
SylDave said:
Ndombele is not a sitting midfielder, to use him as such would be a absolutely waste of a talent even more so than using Winks as one, the pair of them need to be competing for the same spot next to a sitter in Dier or Skipp.
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Couldn't agree more. He should be stronger in the challenge but the fact we’re asking him and Winks to do things they aren’t capable of is on the manager.

I felt sorry for Winks a bit too. He was poor, very poor but on the 3rd or 4th goal, he looked responsible. But you look at the ball he was given and it was a dumb pass and Winks literally had no option whilst facing his own goal. All of this is down to poor coaching. Firstly, Rose shouldn’t be playing the pass and secondly, Winks should have an option.

We’re a mess at the moment.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Couldn't agree more. He should be stronger in the challenge but the fact we’re asking him and Winks to do things they aren’t capable of is on the manager.

I felt sorry for Winks a bit too. He was poor, very poor but on the 3rd or 4th goal, he looked responsible. But you look at the ball he was given and it was a dumb pass and Winks literally had no option whilst facing his own goal. All of this is down to poor coaching. Firstly, Rose shouldn’t be playing the pass and secondly, Winks should have an option.

We’re a mess at the moment.
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I said this last night during the match about Winks, after their 4th(I think), this formation and the role he is being asked to play is absolutely leaving him hanging out to dry, he is a much better player than the last year has showed.
 
DeanoAustin said:
I wouldn't at all. Needs a Dier type player. Ndombele doesn't believe in defending and Winks positional sense is atrocious. With our two centre backs, we need to have someone with defensive tendancies in our midfield.
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You mean with our full backs playing like we have a defensive mid there
 
fernadez said:
Said in the other thread. He could have easily played where Alli was and then get some solidity behind.
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Why not play 4-2-3-1 with Dier and winks behind in the 2
Ndombele can play eriksens role and you still have room for Lamela or Moura or dele or son
 
scaramanga said:
I'd be happy with Winks and N'Dombele as a pairing.
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I wouldn’t, with them two as the pivots we would still be open, nothing like the diamond leaves us but you need a foundation to build from, the sitter allows either Ndombele or Winks to play their best game, transition the ball forward quickly to the front four, and if we are dominating against a brick team they could push further forward, if Dier is no longer up to it for me a proper sitting midfielder needs to be our no 1 priority transfer wise, even ahead of a RB as with a proper formation the full back will get more cover.

And if that new DM has a much better passing range even better, but there is a reason the DM’s that meet that criteria play for the very best teams in the world.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Why not play 4-2-3-1 with Dier and winks behind in the 2
Ndombele can play eriksens role and you still have room for Lamela or Moura or dele or son
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I wouldn’t be opposed to that for games where we don’t expect to have as much of the ball, or when we need to shut up shop to protect a lead, but I don’t think we should be playing that as a first choice for the majority of our games, it would still leave us guilty of just changing things to get favourites in the team, fact is Ndombele and Winks need to be competing, we have enough games a season for them both, we need rotation option anyway.
 
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