***OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Burnlio, Sat Jan 24th, 3pm***

[harr1984]

Bloke has some serious strengths, but also has the concentration span of an ADHD toddler, with the temprament to match. He's good, but he has major deficiencies.

We vastly overrate our two best players at the moment imo.

The Spurs Show podcast has it nailed this week. This is a mid-lower table squad, with a forward line which is at the bottom end of that.

Nah.

Look at Fulham, the team in 7th. Please don't tell me we could only dream of having players of this quality:



Not buying it. We could and should be doing better, how much better we can debate until the cows come home. Frank is not the only problem at this club, but he is underperforming....

 

[Raziel]

Nah.

Look at Fulham, the team in 7th. Please don't tell me we could only dream of having players of this quality:

View attachment 21467

Not buying it. We could and should be doing better, how much better we can debate until the cows come home. Frank is not the only problem at this club, but he is underperforming....

Carrick comes in, wins two extremely hard games
Dyche comes in, Forest after two managers has 6 wins under him in 15 (we have one more win all season)
Glasner checks out and Palace falls off a cliff
Frank still has us dead man walking

Really don't understand how people keep going "no one else will make a difference" at this point letting the players manage themselves probably will give a better result.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Nah.

Look at Fulham, the team in 7th. Please don't tell me we could only dream of having players of this quality:

View attachment 21467

Not buying it. We could and should be doing better, how much better we can debate until the cows come home. Frank is not the only problem at this club, but he is underperforming....

The fact people keep ignoring this is soo embarrassing. Shouldn’t be expecting to beat west ham or Burnley with the players we’ve got either apparently, it’s all “well what do you expect with this squad” etc.

 

[braineclipse]

Carrick comes in, wins two extremely hard games
Dyche comes in, Forest after two managers has 6 wins under him in 15 (we have one more win all season)
Glasner checks out and Palace falls off a cliff
Frank still has us dead man walking

Really don't understand how people keep going "no one else will make a difference" at this point letting the players manage themselves probably will give a better result.

There's obviously also the Stellini example and absolutely no guarantees of course (not saying you're claiming there are guarantees).

I agree a change can make a difference. If we were in this situation, but with a different manager maybe bringing in Frank could have been good. It's more about breaking with what clearly isn't working, a reset, rather than the actual quality of the manager not being there or being there in the new guy.

With examples like Stellini. With some of the typical "oh fudge, we're in a relegation scrap" managers being either taken or perhaps too similar to Frank. With the lack of obvious caretaker options. I can understand giving it some time, but it reaches a breaking point.

As was said on the pod, maybe after the City game would be decent timing. A week off between games, don't throw the new guy into the whole "wanting to lose against City" turmoil. And if we somehow get a win against City the relegation line looks a bit more distant.

 

[billyiddo]

The fact people keep ignoring this is soo embarrassing. Shouldn’t be expecting to beat west ham or Burnley with the players we’ve got either apparently, it’s all “well what do you expect with this squad” etc.

Has anyone said we should be expected to be beating West Ham or Burnley?

(No)

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Has anyone said we should be expected to be beating West Ham or Burnley?

(No)

There have been plenty of comments and insinuations since these games of “what do you expect with this squad” and diverting blame away from the manager on to the club re recruitment. But if you think the recruitment should have us in this form then I think that’s an embarrassing viewpoint, ok?

 

[glorygloryeze]

There have been plenty of comments and insinuations since these games of “what do you expect with this squad” and diverting blame away from the manager on to the club re recruitment. But if you think the recruitment should have us in this form then I think that’s an embarrassing viewpoint, ok?

Where are you reading these?

What i will say is that club mis-management over more than a decade has meant we have a downgraded squad (compared to the Poch days, even compared to the Conte days) and hired a manager to take over the previous one (who won a European trophy) with another manager who at the age of 51 had never managed in a European competition (let alone won a trophy) previously.
Which other 'big club' would have replaced Ange with a Frank?

A perfect concoction to bring about where we are right now.

We should be beating the likes of West Ham and Burnley...but is it a surprise given the above where the club finds itself?

 

[braineclipse]

There have been plenty of comments and insinuations since these games of “what do you expect with this squad” and diverting blame away from the manager on to the club re recruitment. But if you think the recruitment should have us in this form then I think that’s an embarrassing viewpoint, ok?

Don't disagree. Just for reference:

We've played 12 games against teams in the bottom half this season. 16 points with a goal difference of +2 from those 12 games.

We've taken 12 points from 11 games against the top half teams. Goal difference of zero.

1.33 points pr. game in games against the bottom half.

 

[billyiddo]

There have been plenty of comments and insinuations since these games of “what do you expect with this squad” and diverting blame away from the manager on to the club re recruitment. But if you think the recruitment should have us in this form then I think that’s an embarrassing viewpoint, ok?

Has there? I don't believe it's a widely expressed opinion that we don't have a better team or squad than the teams in the relegation zone. I think what's happening is that you're attributing that opinion to people that have been saying the squad/team is mid table to outside bet for the EC/EL places and severely lacking in certain areas.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Don't disagree. Just for reference:

We've played 12 games against teams in the bottom half this season. 16 points with a goal difference of +2 from those 12 games.

We've taken 12 points from 11 games against the top half teams. Goal difference of zero.

1.33 points pr. game in games against the bottom half.

FWIW our results against the bottom half last season were similarly appalling, with our PPG only marginally less bad at 1.38

Fulham 1-1 0-2
Palace 0-2 0-1
Everton 4-0 2-3
Spammers 4-1 1-1
ManU 1-0 3-0
Wolves 2-2 2-4
Leciester 1-2 1-1
Ipswich 1-2 4-1
Southampton 3-1 5-0

Perhaps having to cope without our first choice attackers whilst negotiating CL fixtures midweek is just as much of a hinderance as what Ange had to contend with last campaign and both managers have been hamstrung by the incompetence of those above them in the hierarchy.

 

[billyiddo]

It absolutely is a squad which could challenge for EL places, and given the way this season is going, possibly have snuck 5th (not NOW of course, but had we maintained any sort of par other than consistently losing football matches playing poor football I believe it could've happened). Like it or not, Man Utd are putting in a push for CL places. A side which was broken and (according to many) imbalanced. Mbeumo is their top scorer with 8, followed by Cunha wth 5 (in the PL). Nobody disagrees that this swuad does not need some more work in key areas, but it is absolutely (IMO) still a squad which could achieve EL football placement via the league, even this season if the right boost arrived (TBF I accept that a caretaker would be a gamble, but our league inertia is very, very dangerous IMO)...

Until they prove it it is guess work - we finished 17th last season, with a rake of injuries, and look to be heading towards a similar position with another rake of injuries this season under a different manager - the common denominator there is the squad players. We've had two seasons on the bounce relying for an extended period of time on the backup players in several positions - so either we've had rancid luck with managers or the squad depth isn't as good as some think.

 

[thfcsteff]

We were using the middle of the pitch a bit more than usual.

Pass map attached

I think these two maps offer a more accurate indication of Frank's continual fear of risk in the middle, and how other than some huff and puff, not much was different.

 

[billyiddo]

Seasonal average or from the last game or what, what do they show and how does it compare to other games if from the last game?

 

[Bishop]

Until they prove it it is guess work - we finished 17th last season, with a rake of injuries, and look to be heading towards a similar position with another rake of injuries this season under a different manager - the common denominator there is the squad players. We've had two seasons on the bounce relying for an extended period of time on the backup players in several positions - so either we've had rancid luck with managers or the squad depth isn't as good as some think.

This is the bit I don't get. We are actually very consistent at this point. Albeit consistently bad, but consistent nonetheless.

 

[Bishop]

Nah.

Look at Fulham, the team in 7th. Please don't tell me we could only dream of having players of this quality:

View attachment 21467

Not buying it. We could and should be doing better, how much better we can debate until the cows come home. Frank is not the only problem at this club, but he is underperforming....

The fact people keep ignoring this is soo embarrassing. Shouldn’t be expecting to beat west ham or Burnley with the players we’ve got either apparently, it’s all “well what do you expect with this squad” etc.

There have been plenty of comments and insinuations since these games of “what do you expect with this squad” and diverting blame away from the manager on to the club re recruitment. But if you think the recruitment should have us in this form then I think that’s an embarrassing viewpoint, ok

A better balanced team will outperform a team of "better" individuals over the long term, especially if that group of "better" individuals isn't particularly special and ours aren't.

If we were talking about elite individuals then sure but we have none and particularly not in the attack, the area such players would make the biggest difference.