OMT *** Tottenham Hotspur v Brentford FC ***

[Finney Is Back]

If only a club had tried that experiment recently, of not trying to stop the opposition, of only thinking about football in one direction, I wonder where they would finish in the league...

In 5th place and then Europa Leavue winners in the following season I’d say.

 

[braineclipse]

There will not be any larger pattern yet imho. Not until we get a fully functional attack. He's not a magician. I think the strategy of getting us to be solid and not lose games is correct FOR NOW.

I maintain that for me half a season is enough to see at least some patterns. But fair enough to disagree.

Possibly Burnley away if we have the players who are currently missing returning. Sunderland, I think will be another "don't lose" game.

So for now at the very least this is who we are. And likely to continue for the next 5-10 games (second 5 in that are mostly tougher games so more like 10).

So around three quarters of a season probably won't be enough to see any larger pattern either? Will we have to wait until next season before larger patterns are likely to emerge?

 

[Eriktheviking]

A

And that's exactly why I didn't want him. I don't want to "not lose." I want to win. I want to fail whilst at the very least trying. We're going to fail no matter what. There's too few trophies and moments in the game. So why fail with football this boring? Why not have even just a little bit of ambition?

Fans didnt seem to feel that way with the last guy, Ange.

 

[Finney Is Back]

That eating with you must be an experience!


Sounds like you’re ready for a nice breakfast!!


Here’s my appx take on that game:

1. go there and setup for more expansive football and we probably have less than 1 in 10 chance to win it.

There is a lack of respect to Brentford. Hard to travel there and not get beaten.

2. Setup as Frank did, and our XG was fractionally in our favour. So call it 6 out of 10 times we’d win it.

We were in that game to the end. Finished the stronger team and had chances to nick all three points at the end.

Were we the perfect polished outfit? Of course not! But wtf are people expecting with a very limited attacking squad playing only a feed before. A team with clear issues and holes, missing our first choice 3 attackers from last season. Under the circumstances we did amazing.

We are developing a foundation. Something to be able to play better from.

Watching that game back again today (boy I must be a glutton for punishment) I really don’t see how you can say we’d win it 6 times out of 10. Where on earth was our goal coming from?

Fotmob had the XG as 0.92 for Brentford v 0.86 for us, with Brentford having about two thirds of the momentum. I think it was probably 7 x 0-0s, 2 x 1-0 defeats and 1 x 1-0 win if we played that match 10 times.

Brentford vs Tottenham Hotspur - live score, predicted lineups and H2H stats

Brentford vs Tottenham Hotspur on Thu, Jan 1, 2026, 20:00 UTC. Check live results, H2H, match stats, lineups, player ratings, insights, team forms, shotmap, and highlights.

www.fotmob.com

 

[Finney Is Back]

That isn’t the case.

This is what has happened: we tried to play instant fast counter-attacks at every opportunity. We ended up handing possession back to the opposition and losing. We would look for that instant break, the ball wasn’t quite on, and we would cede possession.

So Frank has said to the team: if you’re not confident in making the pass, recycle it. As the side develops its movement and passing, this makes sense.

It is massively frustrating how low on confidence the forwards are. We routinely miss simple short passes. Richie yesterday had 3-4 where if he gets the short pass right we are baring down on goal. We’re zhit in attack and have been since the start of the season. Who’d have guessed it when missing so many first choice attackers.

I see it differently. I see our central midfielders receive the ball and choose not to pass forwards but instead play a safe pass that fits our horseshoe formation. I think it very likely this is the manager’s preferred style of play due to how often it happens and the fact that the manager has kept on picking these players playing in this way.

 

[Mabspurs]

I think it is hard for players to pass the ball when it appears they have been forbidden to make forward passes centrally through the midfield. The passing options presented are pretty much exlusively horseshoe shaped, making it extremely easy for the opposition to pick up our players and hard for our players to find a teammate. The upside is that when the opposition turn over the ball we're not exposed defensively in the transition phase. It is very much a safety first tactic that pretty much exclusively worries about ensuring the opposition find it hard to create good chances while not caring that it will be very difficult for us to create good chances ourselves (I think we're trying to win 1-0 via a set piece).

I didn't see horseshoes yesterday... just donkeys with blinkers unable to play a simple routine 10 yard pass.... with many actually attempted through central midfield, missing a teammate by as much as a yard or two and ending up in the feet of the Brentford players to start a counter....

 

[SpurMeUp]

Watching that game back again today (boy I must be a glutton for punishment) I really don’t see how you can say we’d win it 6 times out of 10. Where on earth was our goal coming from?

Fotmob had the XG as 0.92 for Brentford v 0.86 for us, with Brentford having about two thirds of the momentum. I think it was probably 7 x 0-0s, 2 x 1-0 defeats and 1 x 1-0 win if we played that match 10 times.

Brentford vs Tottenham Hotspur - live score, predicted lineups and H2H stats

Brentford vs Tottenham Hotspur on Thu, Jan 1, 2026, 20:00 UTC. Check live results, H2H, match stats, lineups, player ratings, insights, team forms, shotmap, and highlights.

www.fotmob.com

THE BBC XG was over 1 for us and about .9 for them. Even if you say it was 50-50 that’s decent odds away at a team with a strong home record.

 

[Finney Is Back]

THE BBC XG was over 1 for us and about .9 for them. Even if you say it was 50-50 that’s decent odds away at a team with a strong home record.

We all know that the BBC can’t be trusted…. They probably spliced together the XGs from 2 different games

 

[billyiddo]

Understat had us slightly ahead too

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Watching that game back again today (boy I must be a glutton for punishment) I really don’t see how you can say we’d win it 6 times out of 10. Where on earth was our goal coming from?

Fotmob had the XG as 0.92 for Brentford v 0.86 for us, with Brentford having about two thirds of the momentum. I think it was probably 7 x 0-0s, 2 x 1-0 defeats and 1 x 1-0 win if we played that match 10 times.

Brentford vs Tottenham Hotspur - live score, predicted lineups and H2H stats

Brentford vs Tottenham Hotspur on Thu, Jan 1, 2026, 20:00 UTC. Check live results, H2H, match stats, lineups, player ratings, insights, team forms, shotmap, and highlights.

www.fotmob.com

I don't need to remember my algebra to figure out we struggle to score, that's why its amusing when I read we are going to score 3 in a game.

 

[parj]

I see it differently. I see our central midfielders receive the ball and choose not to pass forwards but instead play a safe pass that fits our horseshoe formation. I think it very likely this is the manager’s preferred style of play due to how often it happens and the fact that the manager has kept on picking these players playing in this way.

That is what I see too. I don't think TF gets teams didn't really sit back against Brentford, whereas with us, they do. Sometimes, you just need to play the killer pass.

I also don't think having Palinha against a team that is happy to sit off helps as he won't pick a killer pass. If you are one of our attackers, would you run for the first pass, or know that it won't come so you don't run. I have complained a lot about lack of movement, and that's the only genuine reason that explains it. There is no way the players are that bad that they can't make a run.

 

[braineclipse]

I see it differently. I see our central midfielders receive the ball and choose not to pass forwards but instead play a safe pass that fits our horseshoe formation. I think it very likely this is the manager’s preferred style of play due to how often it happens and the fact that the manager has kept on picking these players playing in this way.

My new "favourite" is one of the two deep midfielders in possession with a bit of space facing the right way with the entire opposition team defending and ahead of them.

Meaning that we have the two centre backs behind them being marked by no one. Meaning that ahead of the ball we're outnumbered by two.

Another "favourite" is just how static our midfield two is when we have possession. OK, we probably don't want Palhinha receiving in between the lines under pressure. But they're just there, so easy to mark/pick up. So easy for the opposition midfielders/forwards. If not making a forward run, move sideways, or even deeper in line with the centre backs. Make the opposition player have to make a decision on if they want to follow you there or not. Maybe if we move the opposition has to move too.

We're seemingly not even trying to create space. Which again goes back to the point that we're seemingly satisfied with a draw. In this particular game fair enough, but that's seemingly the approach in most games other than the worst handful we've played this season.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think it is hard for players to pass the ball when it appears they have been forbidden to make forward passes centrally through the midfield. The passing options presented are pretty much exlusively horseshoe shaped, making it extremely easy for the opposition to pick up our players and hard for our players to find a teammate. The upside is that when the opposition turn over the ball we're not exposed defensively in the transition phase. It is very much a safety first tactic that pretty much exclusively worries about ensuring the opposition find it hard to create good chances while not caring that it will be very difficult for us to create good chances ourselves (I think we're trying to win 1-0 via a set piece).

This all day.
And it is selling out these players.
Before the ‘this is an average bunch of plodders wot do u expect’ clamour rises again, the way we set up does nothing to offer these players the best chance of success with regards to playing football. They are set-up to be risk-averse first, to think safety, and to try and ‘pinch’ things on the break.
Systems like this absolutely require elite of the elite in attacking positions as the chances are relatively rare and lacking in anything beyond the situation of a ‘counter’ i.e. no real system beyond, well, countering.
Conte got away with it that first season because he had Kane and Son.
But the truth is, when you don’t play with the ball, when you play a counter-attacking game, you really do need exceptional players to make the ‘moments’ count.
I believe with the current side available, if we were to play a more risk-averse game, we’d be pushing 6th or 7th in this league right now. Solanke returning and perhaps a Maddison or Deki before the end of the season and with the right approach, we could maybe, maybe jostle for 5th.
Currently, we’ll be lucky to finish in the top half of the table.
Again, I think the way we play sells out these players, as they end up not knowing what they’re meant to be doing when attacking, are restricted from taking the game to others in phases of the game, an ultimately end up looking lost.
BTW, call me a snob if you will, but this was Brentford away; good home record or not. We went there with the best away record and the leage. If ever there was a time to assert - with care of course - but to look to win the game…

 

[billyiddo]

I believe with the current side available, if we were to play a more risk-averse game, we’d be pushing 6th or 7th in this league right now.

3 more points than we have now would have us 7th, so that different approach you are wanting, would have us barely any further forward...

 

[thfcsteff]

When I think more about the game I still think the following

1) a complete lack of consideration from some about the impact of missing players, We were without Udogie, Bergval, Sarr, Xavi, Kulu, Madds, Johnson, Solanke. I could. build a case for every single one of them either starting or coming off the bench in this fixture, except Johnson. As for Johnson, I'm proud of my club for making a brave decision and taking the short term pain to get the next guy in.

2) The defensive patterns is a joy to watch for me. These guys are just pivoting into a 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 at ease in this phase of the season. So much hard work has been done that we can end up with different players in different positions of the 4-4-2 e.g. Gray becoming the 9 and shutting down the centre halves. Sometimes Gray was in there with Palhinha whilst Bents had become the right midfielder and Kudus was higher up. Some great work by Frank to build this defensive strategy out for another clean sheet.

3) Moving to the next level and getting a better offensive strategy is Frank's next focus. We've said all season that can't work with a double pivot of Pal / Bents. That was abundantly clear yesterday. It won't work with Richi as a 9 either. He can't hold the ball up and isn't winning fouls. There's no pace their either to scare the opposition. Change just a couple of these things and we will start to see a difference. Then get some player movement off the ball and I think things will look a lot different.

4) The last thing is the left channel. Ours just doesn't work. When they showed on screen how effective Rico Henry's left side was for Brentford yesterday, it was very telling that we haven't had that all season. Someone said earlier about Kudus being doubled up and being less effective. That wasn't the case yesterday. We just got swept away by theirs, and Kudus needed to get his head down and stop it. He didn't until the second half. Porro, on the other hand, was amazing sticking to the task and somehow keeping them at bay. We definitely need a leftie coming into the club this window in either the full-back or left-wing positions. We need a major signing there.

I found this to be a really well articulated counter-perspective.
As you’ve seen in previous threads, I do have sympathy for Frank with regards to what he is dealing with around him. I think everyone is aware of my perspective on the pitch FWIW, but again, some really decent counter-points to chew on here.