*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v AFC Bournemouth ***

[Silly McSilly Face]

I genuinely think they are.

Personally I think it was probably the wrong team selection yesterday, which I’ll put down to Frank still figuring out the squad and who is capable of what. But it’s interesting for an adaptable manager that the same team that beat City away was seen as the right selection to beat Bournemouth at home.

Maybe he was trying to encourage principles of the same players being asked to do different things. But it clearly didn’t work. And that is where I think the issue was yesterday, as opposed to the individual quality of our defenders. We were really bad and the defence faced an onslaught all game. More ball progression and ability to impose our will on Bournemouth would have helped I think.

But I’m not going to judge Frank. I put it down to a learning experience - him about the squad. And the squad understanding his asks.

I like Dragusin as a defender but he's been out for such a long time who knows if he can refind his form. I don't think VDV is a very good defender. He has pace and he is good carrying the ball out from the back so we are a better team playing with the ball and from a recovery perspective with him in it, but marking? Defending set pieces? Standing up to a player 1 v 1? Nah. Romero - it is all there but he switches off concentration wise. He's been costing us goals for getting on 4 years now. As to our full-backs. We have one natural full-back and he's 33. The others were bought as wing-backs mainly for their prowess in carrying the attack down the flanks and supporting the midfield in Conte's system.....and when we have to do some sustained defending it often shows.

You know i compare our game to the Chelsea v Fulham game. Chelsea were under the cosh in a very similar manner. They weren't on it and Fulham were pressing them all over the park and turning over the ball regularly. The difference was Fulham didnt score and nor did they manage to create the absolute catalogue of chances Bournemouth did....because Chelsea's backline maintained its shape and created a wall it was hard to get through, they eventually got the goal against the run of play and then killed them off second half.

The PL is brutal and you need to dig deep in those situations where the other team are absolutely on it and you're not firing. We simply cant do that.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I like Dragusin as a defender but he's been out for such a long time who knows if he can refind his form. I don't think VDV is a very good defender. He has pace and he is good carrying the ball out from the back so we are a better team playing with the ball and from a recovery perspective with him in it, but marking? Defending set pieces? Standing up to a player 1 v 1? Nah. Romero - it is all there but he switches off concentration wise. He's been costing us goals for getting on 4 years now. As to our full-backs. We have one natural full-back and he's 33. The others were bought as wing-backs mainly for their prowess in carrying the attack down the flanks and supporting the midfield in Conte's system.....and when we have to do some sustained defending it often shows.

You know i compare our game to the Chelsea v Fulham game. Chelsea were under the cosh in a very similar manner. They weren't on it and Fulham were pressing them all over the park and turning over the ball regularly. The difference was Fulham didnt score and nor did they manage to create the absolute catalogue of chances Bournemouth did....because Chelsea's backline maintained its shape and created a wall it was hard to get through, they eventually got the goal against the run of play and then killed them off second half.

The PL is brutal and you need to dig deep in those situations where the other team are absolutely on it and you're not firing. We simply cant do that.

I’ll agree to disagree. I think there’s going to be plenty of games this season where we are going to win a game in the manner Chelsea did yesterday. I just think yesterday was a bad day, and we can’t read too much in the individual quality of the players on the back of it, as long as the coaching staff learn from it.

 

[SpurMeUp]

We didn't look prepared for their press. That is probably on the manager, maybe the players knew it was coming, but couldn't play around it.

The one other frustrstion was we failed to take advantage when they tired - at the end of both halfs. More composure was needed - in the face of their press, and to make it pay when they tired.

It was the sort of performance a smaller side can deliver when fresh. They outworked us, and we weren't prepped or able to play around them.

Listening to Franks press confrence he says words to the effect: we knew the press was coming and trained for it.

For me the disappointment was our lack of composure and belief when we did get some space towards the end of each half. Huge credit to Bournmouth stopping us settling. Sometimes the intense atmosphere playing at home can make us more nervous and jittery, too frantic. We needed more composure to impose our game when they tired. But by then we were rattled, and shaky. Too many sloppy passes and we didn’t impose our game.

The ref didn't help. Bournmouth fell over better and seemed to get more of the decisions. Certainally could have been a second yellow for Seymanyo. When we were challanging them 50-50 they fell over and got the FK most of the time, vice versa we wouldn't fall over or Rici would too easily. Bournmouth managed the game in the last quarter, stopped us getting into any rythm. As we did against City.

At least Frank now knows we need to work more on our passing out under pressure. Few teams will press as well as Bournemouth - even Bournemouth won't press as well as that all season. It isn't sustainable. But we must improve.

Credit to Bournmouth they were better than us. We are work in progress, and need to learn how to play as favorites.

I'd consider swapping out Paulhinha in such games, as we needq more passing guile in the middle. Even someone like Odobert could give a bit more dynamism in the centre, able to step around the press and make a pass. That was missing.

 

[Mrs Vert]

I’m more concerned with how many times we let them run untracked into our box. That caused us so many issues, including the goal.

And we never sorted it out

 

[Dr Rosenrosen]

We still lack a switch passer. I remember a moment late on when Kudus beat his man but the cover defender was there so he passed to Bentancur and Odobert was deep left in acres of space. Bents definitely saw him because he shaped to make the pass then declined and passed to Romero instead it took another 2 or 3 passes before it eventually made its way to Odobert by which time the Bournemouth defence had moved over and the gap was gone.

Simons might be a difference maker in that regard because he does had a good switch on him but he won't always be the one recieving that pass. We need a bit more bravery and technical passing quality in the deeper midfield positions because it otherwise makes things quite pedestrian.

As much as we miss Kane's goals, he had such awareness and vision and created so much with his passing.

 

[Bishop]

As much as we miss Kane's goals, he had such awareness and vision and created so much with his passing.

Kane had that ability to make space for himself to shoot and had incredible accuracy along with that shot. We ain't getting another Kane tbh so we just have to let that go.

If we can improve the rest of the attackers we might reach the same overall quality or even better than when we had Kane because we never had a good RW option in all that time.

 

[markysimmo]

Stat

The last nine times we have beaten City we have not won the game after

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

As much as we miss Kane's goals, he had such awareness and vision and created so much with his passing.

It was the partnership he had with Son too. Telepathic and you can't coach that two players either click like that or they don't. Bit like i could never see Dembele and Dier midfield working. It shouldn't really on paper when you think about it. But it just did.

 

[braineclipse]

I wasn't saying 'the best pressing team IN THE game' .....but 'the best pressing team IN A game' ie how do you engineer a specific game to make you the pressing team in a match of two very good pressing teams.
Bournemouth took on that role yesterday, when we know we can do that as well, just as we proved against City and PSG

Yeah, sorry, wasn't clear enough. I was very much agreeing with you. Just with the addition that to do that you have to also be really good at pressing.

This is not new. Stoke did the same for 20-25 minutes back in the day and we always struggled. Bournemouth just do it better for longer. And the key to doing this in a game against us is (with some tweaks) what they do in most games against good teams.

You can't be pressed if you just hoof it worward (they do more than that, but just as an example).

 

[braineclipse]

Listening to Franks press confrence he says words to the effect: we knew the press was coming and trained for it.

For me the disappointing thing was 1. the lack of composure and 2. belief when we did get some space towards the ends of the halfs. Huge credit to Bournmouth stopping us settling. And playing at home when under pressure, it can make us more nervous and jittery, too frantic. We needed more composure and belief to impose our game when they tired. But by then we were rattled, and shaky. Too many sloppy passes and no one stood up to impose our game.

The ref didn't help. Bournmouth fell over better and seemed to get more of the decisions. Certainally could have been a second yellow for Seymanyo. When we were challanging them 50-50 they fell over and got the FK most of the time, vice versa we wouldn't fall over or Rici would too easily. Bournmouth managed the game in the last quarter, stopped us getting into any rythm. As we did against City.

At least Frank now knows we need to work more on our passing out under pressure. Few teams will press as well as Bournemouth - even Bournemouth won't press as well as that all season. It isn't sustainable even without Europe. But we must improve. And we need to be calmer and more composed to play through a press.

Credit to Bournmouth they were better than us. We are work in progress, and need to learn how to play as favorites.

I'd consider swapping out Paulhinha in such games, as we needed more passing guile in the middle. Even someone like Odobert could give a bit more dynamism in the centre, able to step around the press and make a pass. That was missing.

Agreed.

Our problems playing out through a press aren't new at all. It's imo part of why we brought in Kudus and Simons. But with Kulusevski and Maddison injured and Simons not registered us struggling to play through a press isn't exactly a surprise.

Bournemouth really are exceptional at it. Arguably the best in the league. So should be less of an issue for the vast majority of games. But still something we need to improve on.

We were really good at it for a while under Ange. But it took a ton of risk and Maddison on the pitch being really good. But the shortcomings in the squad made it unsustainable (along with other factors). Those shortcomings still exist though some steps to mitigate that certainly have been taken.

Frank had players that could have changed it a bit available (Odobert, Gray and Bergvall), but none of them can be expected to fix it at this point. Would still be a problem and playing them would perhaps cause other problems.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Well, that was, erm....sh!t...

I guess all the negatives about Johnson and Richarlison playing came back to the fore....oh well..

I liked the fight we had once we made some of the subs in the last 20 mins or so, we were at least pushing them back (though that might also be because they were tiring,the effort they must have put into their press was astronomical).

Strangley - despite the number of chances Bournemouth created - i was impressed with how our defence hung in their; the late blocks, save from Vicario etc. They were getting no protection from the midfield because of Bournemouth's pressing and movement but considering taht they battled well to keep us from getting totally embarrassed.
They seemed able to battle and not brittle like i've seen previously. Hopefully that's a GHod enough base to use to stay relatively high in the table for the rest of the season.

How do people think having Simons available for this match would have effected things?

 

[braineclipse]

Well, that was, erm....sh!t...

I guess all the negatives about Johnson and Richarlison playing came back to the fore....oh well..

I liked the fight we had once we made some of the subs in the last 20 mins or so, we were at least pushing them back (though that might also be because they were tiring,the effort they must have put into their press was astronomical).

Strangley - despite the number of chances Bournemouth created - i was impressed with how our defence hung in their; the late blocks, save from Vicario etc. They were getting no protection from the midfield because of Bournemouth's pressing and movement but considering taht they battled well to keep us from getting totally embarrassed.
They seemed able to battle and not brittle like i've seen previously. Hopefully that's a GHod enough base to use to stay relatively high in the table for the rest of the season.

How do people think having Simons available for this match would have effected things?

Said it earlier in this thread, but think Simons changes that game considerably.

They set up in that way to negate our right hand side and Kudus in particular. They then also left quite a bit of space centrally to do so and to also deal with our long balls and not have as much of a risk with long balls in behind.

That left a lot of space centrally that I think Simons would have thrived in, and probably they would also have to change their approach somewhat had Simons been there.

 

[mudshark]

Stat

The last nine times we have beaten City we have not won the game after

I've seen this doing the rounds, but it's not actually true, it's only the last four times. The last nine times we've beaten City, we won the following game on three occasions, v. Wolves, Villa and Swansea.

23-Aug-25    FA Prem    55,097    A    Manсhester City         W    2 - 0    Johnson, Palhinha
30-Aug-25    FA Prem    61,250    H    Bournemouth             L    0 - 1

23-Nov-24    FA Prem    52,478    A    Manсhester City         W    4 - 0    Maddison (2), Porro, Johnson
01-Dec-24    FA Prem    61,141    H    Fulham                  D    1 - 1    Johnson

05-Feb-23    FA Prem    61,747    H    Manсhester City         W    1 - 0    Kane              
11-Feb-23    FA Prem    32,184    A    Leicester City          L    1 - 4    Bentancur

19-Feb-22    FA Prem    53,201    A    Manсhester City         W    3 - 2    Kulusevski, Kane (2)  
23-Feb-22    FA Prem    19,488    A    Burnley                 L    0 - 1     

15-Aug-21    FA Prem    58,262    H    Manсhester City         W    1 - 0    Son                   
22-Aug-21    FA Prem    30,368    A    Wolves                  W    1 - 0    Alli (pen)

21-Nov-20    FA Prem    0         H    Manсhester City         W    2 - 0    Son, Lo Celso
29-Nov-20    FA Prem    0         A    Chelsea                 d    0 - 0

01-Feb-20    FA Prem    61,022    H    Manсhester City         W    2 - 0    Bergwijn, Son 
08-Feb-20    FA Prem    41,874    A    Aston Villa             W    3 - 2    Alderweireld, Son (2)

01-Oct-16    FA Prem    31,793    H    Manсhester City         W    2 - 0    Kolarov (OG), Alli 
15-Oct-16    FA Prem    24,263    A    West Bromwich Albion    D    1 - 1    Alli

13-Feb-16    FA Prem    54,551    A    Manсhester City         W    2 - 1    Kane (pen), Eriksen 
27-Feb-16    FA Prem    35,922    H    Swansea City            W    2 - 1    Chadli, Rose

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Just spoke to old mate on phone today, first thing he said "what about Spurs getting beat by Bournemouth", now I get exasperate by modern fans and their delusional expectations but we use to go to Spurs in the late 50's, he should know better by now. Few teams can expect to win every game and none do and I think its ignorance and disrespectful to other teams to have that view, we all want to win just need to accept it wont always be the case.

 

[braineclipse]

Just spoke to old mate on phone today, first thing he said "what about Spurs getting beat by Bournemouth", now I get exasperate by modern fans and their delusional expectations but we use to go to Spurs in the late 50's, he should know better by now. Few teams can expect to win every game and none do and I think its ignorance and disrespectful to other teams to have that view, we all want to win just need to accept it wont always be the case.

True in general and way more true with Bournemouth... Good team, fantastic pressing team, dealing with a high press is one of our weaknesses.

 

[Mosquito_Coasting]

I doubt Bournemouth's press will be that effective for more than 5 or 6 more games this season. Sometimes you just meet an inspired team, I do think Saturday was more about them than us.

 

[Mikey10]

How do people think having Simons available for this match would have affected things?

Given the intensity of Bournemouth’s press I’d say there’s a high probability he’d have spent an hour at least trying to adapt, and wondering if every PL game was going to be like this.

 

[glasgowspur]

Just watched the game, I didn't think we were as bad as is being made out on here.
We really need to learn to defend from the 18 yard line and out.
If that's Iraloa style then thank fudge we didn’t end up with him, that's awful, the fouling, time wasting and general brickiness is more than I could take.
And these refs, ffs.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Perhaps Kudus can help persuade Semenyo to join us, like how van de Ven did with his countryman Simons!

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[braineclipse]

Just watched the game, I didn't think we were as bad as is being made out on here.
We really need to learn to defend from the 18 yard line and out.
If that's Iraloa style then thank fudge we didn’t end up with him, that's awful, the fouling, time wasting and general brickiness is more than I could take.
And these refs, ffs.

Iraoloa really is an excellent manager for Bournemouth. I'm not sure that translates as well to two games a week, clubs in Europe and all that. Maybe he can tweak it enough to make it work, but I'm kinda glad we're not the club to take the gamble on that. (May be proven wrong on this for sure).

I doubt Bournemouth's press will be that effective for more than 5 or 6 more games this season. Sometimes you just meet an inspired team, I do think Saturday was more about them than us.

Yeah, probably. They did it quite a bit last season though. Them going ahead probably made a bit of a difference and made them play a bit better and us a bit worse making it an even more inspired performance overall.