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***OMT - Spurs vs Liverpool***

braineclipse said:
No. We were outplayed by the books for the opening 45. We had a couple of chances, primarily two set up by Ben Davies (expecting that to be overlooked by many). But overall we were about as clearly second best as we were against City.

Only two teams in the league (City and Liverpool) press that well for full games. Though it's a worry that others might try it more seeing how much terrible it causes us.

Our problem against teams sitting back deep is not as big.

Yes, overall we're a very good team.
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Sorry, but that's a bit too much for me. We're bad against teams that press us, and we're bad against teams that sit deep - but we're still a very good side? If all we do is win consistently against teams in that *half space* where they can't press as well but also can't sit as deep, then we're not really excellent at anything, just good against average sides.

There's an argument somewhere that favors your assertion, but I'm not sure you've made it.
 
I love poch, but that was a mistake, big time. We had a chance to kill Liverpool off tonight with a draw. First rule in games like this, don't concede. Yet we go out as open as possible.
Having said that, as against Emirates Marketing Project with Hugo our normal rock victor was poor, dier was dire and son useless. Why son wasn't hooked at ht is beyond be.
Poch this one's on you mate.
 
Benny_Lad said:
What does frustrate me today is that we weren't prepared for the initial Mane onslaught. I'm sure we all thought Davies would struggle but we could easily have doubled up early doors probably like the other teams have that played Liverpool have done.

That's my only concern that this wasn't taken care of.
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Mane was dangerous on the break. You can't really double up on players when you have the ball. Unless you want us to just boot it and get rid to get ball into a defensive shape again.

There might be a small selection of left backs in the world that would not have looked terribly out of place against Mane in our setup today. Just perhaps Rose is one of them. My money would be on that he would have struggled too. We were simply pressed into oblivion by Liverpool and the counter attacks they got as a result of that was very difficult to defend against for all of our defenders.
 
Legohamster said:
Players like gabbiadini who were avalaible could have come in and really improved us and given us a boost for the run in.

So frustrating we don't act
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People were telling me we had enough cover for loss of form, injuries and we had enough quality in the squad to change things tactically, during the window.
Do we still think that, it is one game but the flaws from previous games and campaigns remain. Dealing with pressure games, away attitude and belief.
 
braineclipse said:
Mane was dangerous on the break. You can't really double up on players when you have the ball. Unless you want us to just boot it and get rid to get ball into a defensive shape again.
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Would that necessarily be a bad thing? At least against Liverpool, until Poch figures out a way of besting Klopp?
 
DubaiSpur said:
Sorry, but that's a bit too much for me. We're bad against teams that press us, and we're bad against teams that sit deep - but we're still a very good side? If all we do is win consistently against teams in that *half space* where they can't press as well but also can't sit as deep, then we're not really excellent at anything, just good against average sides.

There's an argument somewhere that favors your assertion, but I'm not sure you've made it.
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I'm probably not making myself very clear. But at this point if the kind of opponents we struggle against isn't clear enough from watching the games I'm not sure it's in me to make that clear.

My opinion on what is the main cause of these problems remains the same as it has been for some time. But apparently that's close to blasphemy on here and making my point clear on this is definitely beyond me tonight.
 
glasgowspur said:
I love poch, but that was a mistake, big time. We had a chance to kill Liverpool off tonight with a draw. First rule in games like this, don't concede. Yet we go out as open as possible.
Having said that, as against Emirates Marketing Project with Hugo our normal rock victor was poor, dier was dire and son useless. Why son wasn't hooked at ht is beyond be.
Poch this one's on you mate.
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agree, said it in the Poch thread .. all on him. I'm sure people are going go pick on Dier, Davies, etc for having off games. Fact is we knew exactly how Pool play, and what works and doesn't.

Look at both goals, early in game, we were too high up, huge space to knock the ball into and have Pool's pace run into.

Dogbrick lower level sides have sat off Pool, gave them no space to hit the ball over into, no space to make pace useful, then hit them with ball over top on their side.

This same side, with the right tactics could have hurt Pool, but Poch decided to play our game despite the obvious fact that Pool is suited to counter our style and have big limitations.
 
Our away record against the other top 6 clubs under Pochettino in his 3 seasons is poor.

14/15 W0 D1 L4
15/16 W1 D3 L1
16/17 W0 D2 L3
Total W1 D6 L8
 
Pirate55 said:
We lost away at Chelsea, United, and now Liverpool ......and really should have lost against City away and Liverpool at home. We were also shown up in the Champions League. As I said, we really are not as good as we think we are.
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Have a day off fella. That's not how football works.
 
braineclipse said:
I'm probably not making myself very clear. But at this point if the kind of opponents we struggle against isn't clear enough from watching the games I'm not sure it's in me to make that clear.

My opinion on what is the main cause of these problems remains the same as it has been for some time. But apparently that's close to blasphemy on here and making my point clear on this is definitely beyond me tonight.
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No, that's not the bit that people are picking at. You're right in that being pressed or being afforded the ball against a ten-man defense makes us struggle - but where you're sort of slipping up (imo) is suggesting that we're a *very* good side despite this. Fact is, we can't just look good against average sides or sides incapable of sitting deep/pressing and then call ourselves *very* good - the higher up we go, the more sides we encounter capable of pressing us to extinction or sitting deep and boring us into submission. We got a taste of that in the CL, when Leverkusen (ninth in the Bundesliga at the time of writing, I believe - floundering in mid-table) relentlessly dominated us across both games, and Monaco just did away with us as casually as they would a bottom-of-the-table Ligue 1 side.

If such approaches leave us floundering, then what does it say about our true quality when a mid-table Bundesliga side and a Ligue 1 outfit can use them to dominate us? Surely we can't delude ourselves into thinking we're world beaters because we put away the Middlesbroughs and Watfords of this world.

There's an argument in there somewhere that supports your assertion, as I said. Our wins against Chelsea and City at home were masterpieces, and worthy of a great deal of admiration - and consideration in your view of how we do against sides that press or sit deep. But I'm not sure you've hit upon it just yet.
 
thfcsteff said:
Again, I put that down to poor selection of shape from manager versus left-side weakness (injuries)...absolutely no creative gumption today though, and given how hard it was last weekend too I would say we are riding an issue right now.

Absolutely a massive clanger from Poch today, no doubt, but I trust him to get it right next game.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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And your evidence for that is the City game is it?

I hope he does though.
 
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