O/T The Rooney Rule

[spurspinter1]

www1.skysports.com/football/news/11750/8649964/

What Ugo's talking about in that article, the Rooney rule really seems like a huge fudging step backwards.

MLK wanted his kids to be judged by the content of their character not by the colour of their skin, so getting random interviews from premier league clubs to fill some ridiculous quota seems like a pretty bad idea. A horrendous one actually.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: The Academy, NextGen, U18 & U21 Premier League and On-Loan Thread

Probably the wrong thread but what Ugo's talking about in that article, the Rooney rule really seems like a huge fudging step backwards.

MLK wanted his kids to be judged by the content of their character not by the colour of their skin, so getting random interviews from premier league clubs to fill some ridiculous quota seems like a pretty bad idea. A horrendous one actually.

As I understand it, the Rooney rule doesn't require that a certain proportion of black or other ethnic minority coaches get given jobs. It only requires that a certain proportion of black or other ethnic minority coaches are interviewed. It was certainly the case in the NFL that, prior to the Rooney rule, a great many African American coaches never even got as far as the interview stage. And since the implementation of the Rooney rule, a number of African American coaches have been given head coach jobs (who would otherwise not even have been interviewed) and gone on to be highly successful.

The rule is generally considered to have been a success.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: The Academy, NextGen, U18 & U21 Premier League and On-Loan Thread

As I understand it, the Rooney rule doesn't require that a certain proportion of black or other ethnic minority coaches get given jobs. It only requires that a certain proportion of black or other ethnic minority coaches are interviewed. It was certainly the case in the NFL that, prior to the Rooney rule, a great many African American coaches never even got as far as the interview stage. And since the implementation of the Rooney rule, a number of African American coaches have been given head coach jobs (who would otherwise not even have been interviewed) and gone on to be highly successful.

The rule is generally considered to have been a success.

Premier League clubs rarely interview candidates. They just go out there and appoint the first name that comes into the chairman's head.

 

[AberYid]

Re: The Academy, NextGen, U18 & U21 Premier League and On-Loan Thread

Probably the wrong thread but what Ugo's talking about in that article, the Rooney rule really seems like a huge fudging step backwards.

MLK wanted his kids to be judged by the content of their character not by the colour of their skin, so getting random interviews from premier league clubs to fill some ridiculous quota seems like a pretty bad idea. A horrendous one actually.

Genuinely thought you meant Moonlit Knight for a second. GHod forbid he ever had kids...

 

[spurspinter1]

Re: The Academy, NextGen, U18 & U21 Premier League and On-Loan Thread

As I understand it, the Rooney rule doesn't require that a certain proportion of black or other ethnic minority coaches get given jobs. It only requires that a certain proportion of black or other ethnic minority coaches are interviewed. It was certainly the case in the NFL that, prior to the Rooney rule, a great many African American coaches never even got as far as the interview stage. And since the implementation of the Rooney rule, a number of African American coaches have been given head coach jobs (who would otherwise not even have been interviewed) and gone on to be highly successful.

The rule is generally considered to have been a success.

How would you feel as an ethnic minority having an interview for a job that you knew you wouldn't get if it wasn't for some flimflam quota? You'd want to know you'd earned your place in the interview surely. I think it's an utterly disgusting rule, I really do. It offends me. Unsurprisingly a step in completely the wrong direction.

 

[r-u-s-x]

Re: The Academy, NextGen, U18 & U21 Premier League and On-Loan Thread

There are roughly the same amount % of black managers as % population.

I think the argument is there are more black football players as a % so there should be more Black managers. This should be the case but you would expect to see a lag (black players retiring and going into managenmetn). We should also see if the increased wages of footballers means that less go on to be top managers.

no new rules are currently needed, IMHO.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: The Academy, NextGen, U18 & U21 Premier League and On-Loan Thread

How would you feel as an ethnic minority having an interview for a job that you knew you wouldn't get if it wasn't for some flimflam quota? You'd want to know you'd earned your place in the interview surely. I think it's an utterly disgusting rule, I really do. It offends me. Unsurprisingly a step in completely the wrong direction.

Did you read what I wrote? The Rooney rule doesn't require that there be a set quota of African Americans appointed to coaching positions. It only requires that there be a set quota of African Americans interviewed for coaching positions.

The rule only asks that African Americans be given a chance to make their case to NFL owners, as and when positions become available. Previously, they were not being given that chance.

They are not treated differently to any of the other applicants. If they do not convince the interviewers of their abilities, then they will not get the job.

As to you worrying about how ethnic minorities might feel about the rule, I can only say that it has been warmly welcomed and endorsed by ethnic minorities in the U.S. And the fact that Ugo Ehiogu is calling for a similar rule to be implemented here suggests that it might be equally as warmly welcomed by ethnic minorities on this side of the Atlantic.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: The Academy, NextGen, U18 & U21 Premier League and On-Loan Thread

Did you read what I wrote? The Rooney rule doesn't require that there be a set quota of African Americans appointed to coaching positions. It only requires that there be a set quota of African Americans interviewed for coaching positions.

The rule only asks that African Americans be given a chance to make their case to NFL owners, as and when positions become available. Previously, they were not being given that chance.

They are not treated differently to any of the other applicants. If they do not convince the interviewers of their abilities, then they will not get the job.

As to you worrying about how ethnic minorities might feel about the rule, I can only say that it has been warmly welcomed and endorsed by ethnic minorities in the U.S. And the fact that Ugo Ehiogu is calling for a similar rule to be implemented here suggests that it might be equally as warmly welcomed by ethnic minorities on this side of the Atlantic.

Well yes, they are. There isn't a set quota of any other groups that must be interviewed. That's pretty much the definition of being treated differently.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: The Academy, NextGen, U18 & U21 Premier League and On-Loan Thread

There are roughly the same amount % of black managers as % population.

I think the argument is there are more black football players as a % so there should be more Black managers. This should be the case but you would expect to see a lag (black players retiring and going into managenmetn). We should also see if the increased wages of footballers means that less go on to be top managers.

no new rules are currently needed, IMHO.

+1

Can't see beyond this. As long as the first point is true.


Also there should be more black players going into coaching/managing now than there were 30 years ago, because there are more playing football. The situation is fine as is.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: The Academy, NextGen, U18 & U21 Premier League and On-Loan Thread

Well yes, they are. There isn't a set quota of any other groups that must be interviewed. That's pretty much the definition of being treated differently.

Okay, then. Let me clarify: they aren't treated differently to any of the other candidates once they are in the interview process.

And since it was demonstrably true that African American coaches weren't even being given the same opportunities as their Caucasian counterparts, the Rooney rule was an excellent way of dealing with the problem without forcing teams to appoint sub par staff in the name of equality.

 

[spurspinter1]

Re: The Academy, NextGen, U18 & U21 Premier League and On-Loan Thread

Did you read what I wrote? The Rooney rule doesn't require that there be a set quota of African Americans appointed to coaching positions. It only requires that there be a set quota of African Americans interviewed for coaching positions.

The rule only asks that African Americans be given a chance to make their case to NFL owners, as and when positions become available. Previously, they were not being given that chance.

They are not treated differently to any of the other applicants. If they do not convince the interviewers of their abilities, then they will not get the job.

As to you worrying about how ethnic minorities might feel about the rule, I can only say that it has been warmly welcomed and endorsed by ethnic minorities in the U.S. And the fact that Ugo Ehiogu is calling for a similar rule to be implemented here suggests that it might be equally as warmly welcomed by ethnic minorities on this side of the Atlantic.

There shouldn't be any drawbacks to being an ethnic minority in society but there most definitely shouldn't be any perks either, we're going for equality, this rule does not support equality, it's laughable. Scary that people think it is a good idea.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: The Academy, NextGen, U18 & U21 Premier League and On-Loan Thread

There shouldn't be any drawbacks to being an ethnic minority in society but there most definitely shouldn't be any perks either, we're going for equality, this rule does not support equality, it's laughable. Scary that people think it is a good idea.

You call it a perk.

But what do you call being overlooked for jobs purely on account of the fact that African Americans weren't deemed to be suitable candidates for senior coaching roles?

However much you protest, you can't get away from the fact that the only thing on offer, as a consequence of the Rooney rule, is an interview. Just an interview. Nothing more. Not a job. No pay. No undeserved position. Just an interview.

In my book, that's a minuscule and utterly inconsequential price to pay in order to counter and put right decades of discrimination.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: The Academy, NextGen, U18 & U21 Premier League and On-Loan Thread

You call it a perk.

But what do you call being overlooked for jobs purely on account of the fact that African Americans weren't deemed to be suitable candidates for senior coaching roles?

However much you protest, you can't get away from the fact that the only thing on offer, as a consequence of the Rooney rule, is an interview. Just an interview. Nothing more. Not a job. No pay. No undeserved position. Just an interview.

In my book, that's a minuscule and utterly inconsequential price to pay in order to counter and put right decades of discrimination.

I would call it racist I was hoping we would be moving past that and into equality, but i guess we're going to have to make some stops along the way.

However much you state it, you can't deny that it's preferential treatment and therefore a mockery of equality.


Put right decades of discrimination? It's in the past. I am afraid there is fudge all you or anyone can do to put those years right. All that we can do is move forward and try to improve on the present.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: The Academy, NextGen, U18 & U21 Premier League and On-Loan Thread

I would call it racist I was hoping we would be moving past that and into equality, but i guess we're going to have to make some stops along the way.

However much you state it, you can't deny that it's preferential treatment and therefore a mockery of equality.


Put right decades of discrimination? It's in the past. I am afraid there is fudge all you or anyone can do to put those years right. All that we can do is move forward and try to improve on the present.

And the Rooney rule was a brilliant way of improving what was then the present. One day soon, hopefully, it won't be required. But it most definitely was required at the time that it was implemented.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: The Academy, NextGen, U18 & U21 Premier League and On-Loan Thread

And the Rooney rule was a brilliant way of improving what was then the present. One day soon, hopefully, it won't be required. But it most definitely was required at the time that it was implemented.

That time has been and gone.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: The Academy, NextGen, U18 & U21 Premier League and On-Loan Thread

That time has been and gone.

Right.....

Because there are loads of black coaches being interviewed and getting top jobs in English football....

Hundreds of 'em....

 

[spurspinter1]

Re: The Academy, NextGen, U18 & U21 Premier League and On-Loan Thread

You call it a perk.

But what do you call being overlooked for jobs purely on account of the fact that African Americans weren't deemed to be suitable candidates for senior coaching roles?

However much you protest, you can't get away from the fact that the only thing on offer, as a consequence of the Rooney rule, is an interview. Just an interview. Nothing more. Not a job. No pay. No undeserved position. Just an interview.

In my book, that's a minuscule and utterly inconsequential price to pay in order to counter and put right decades of discrimination.

Oh yes I'm sure every club when looking for a new manager goes "right guys, we need a new manager, although we must make sure not to hire any African Americans, they aren't suitable candidates". If you are looking to hire someone, the only thing that should be taken to account is their ability to perform the job you require them for. Skin colour should have absolutely nothing to do with it. Unfortunately for many many years it did have something to do with it, which is a great injustice I don't think many would disagree. I believe as a nation we're at a point now where it doesn't have something to do with it, and the Rooney rule introduces it back in again.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

That quote seems quite relevant here.

Me, I'm a white male. I plan on living abroad, and potentially I may live in a country where I'll be an ethnic minority. I will seek employment and I will want to know that the reason that I gain interviews and (hopefully) eventually employment will be down to the that I was deemed most suitable for the job, not that I was filling the fudging white guy quota.

I understand that it is "just an interview", I believe that if I was offered such an interview for a role because of my skin colour that I knew I wouldn't have got an interview for if it weren't for my skin colour I would find that pretty fudging offensive.

Do you really think this will help put right decades of discrimination? Oh the whole slave thing is ok because when Fergie retired they had a short meeting with Paul Ince to tick the Rooney Rule box and then decided to hire someone who they actually thought would be suitable for the role, I'm sure that made Mr Ince feel fantastic about the whole situation, we've put the situation right folks, no need to feel guilty anymore \o/

Anyway...That Luongo's looking pretty good for Swindon eh?

 

[rosenthal]

Re: The Academy, NextGen, U18 & U21 Premier League and On-Loan Thread

Will Ryan Giggs qualify for an interview under the Rooney rule?

 

[Hootnow]

Re: The Academy, NextGen, U18 & U21 Premier League and On-Loan Thread

That time has been and gone.

:lol:

Yeah, in American especially, we've completely moved past the discrimination of ethnic minorities, especially of blacks. No need whatsoever to provide any help, now they don't need to get up for whites on the bus, everything is completely equal.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: The Academy, NextGen, U18 & U21 Premier League and On-Loan Thread

:lol:

Yeah, in American especially, we've completely moved past the discrimination of ethnic minorities, especially of blacks. No need whatsoever to provide any help, now they don't need to get up for whites on the bus, everything is completely equal.

Exactly. Either let them stand on their own, or give them a crutch to stand up with.


Seems pretty obvious. Equality, or not equality.