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Not playing Defoe more is costing us

Defoe clearly is a goalgetter, but it's highly debateable whether we play as well with him, whether we are as threatening and whether we are as balanced as with VdV.

Some of the OP points are just BS - e.g. Defoe working harder getting the ball than VdV. It's disproven again and again, that VdV is lazy, he is consistently amongst the top yardeaters amongst Spurs players game after game. Defoe on the other hand does little if any pressing, and neither does really Saha. That's why we get under so much pressure, when Redknapp e.g. puts on both like against Sunderland in the final 10 or so minutes - it's like playing with 9 men.
 
For the record, I'd like to see us play both Defoe and VdV really. In theory it would work very well, but Defoe needs to work a hell of a lot harder finding space twisting and turning and being an outlet. All game. You can't play that position when standing around between two centre halves most game.

Norwich might be just the game to try it, who knows.
 
DanishWhite said:
For the record, I'd like to see us play both Defoe and VdV really. In theory it would work very well, but Defoe needs to work a hell of a lot harder finding space twisting and turning and being an outlet. All game. You can't play that position when standing around between two centre halves most game.

Norwich might be just the game to try it, who knows.
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Are you talking about two strikers with VdV on the right or VdV behind Defoe in a 4-4-1-1? 4-4-1-1 with VdV and Defoe last season didn't look great at all.
 
DanishWhite said:
For the record, I'd like to see us play both Defoe and VdV really. In theory it would work very well, but Defoe needs to work a hell of a lot harder finding space twisting and turning and being an outlet. All game. You can't play that position when standing around between two centre halves most game.

Norwich might be just the game to try it, who knows.
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Don't think it'll happen but not a bad shout. Defoe got a hatrick for England with Rooney playing behind him, unfortunately don't think VDV can pull the strings as well as Rooney does but it could still work. We don't actually have to play a traditional target man, problem is with Defoe up front VDV may leave him isolated if he drops deep
 
braineclipse said:
Are you talking about two strikers with VdV on the right or VdV behind Defoe in a 4-4-1-1? 4-4-1-1 with VdV and Defoe last season didn't look great at all.
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Nope, because VdV was too deep looking for the ball and Defoe was not working hard enough to find space. I agree it didn't look good.
 
spurspinter1 said:
Don't think it'll happen but not a bad shout. Defoe got a hatrick for England with Rooney playing behind him, unfortunately don't think VDV can pull the strings as well as Rooney does but it could still work. We don't actually have to play a traditional target man, problem is with Defoe up front VDV may leave him isolated if he drops deep
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VdV is not like Rooney. No other striker on the planet is.

Which is why Defoe will have to adapt. And adapting is not something Defoe has done well so far.

I reckon it could work though. It demands for VdV to stay a further say 10 yards upfield (on average) and for Defoe to both do more pressing and A LOT of more hussling to find space off the ball. A lot. Can they do it ? Difficult to say.
 
DanishWhite said:
Nope, because VdV was too deep looking for the ball and Defoe was not working hard enough to find space. I agree it didn't look good.
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Isn't that the exact same criticism (rightly or wrongly) aimed at VdV still?? And isn't that more or less still the same problem people have with Defoe?

I see no reason why that would be better than Ade-VdV or Ade-Defoe/Saha.
 
Defoe and VdV up top simply doesn't work...remember last season guys...

Defoe needs an additional striker on the pitch to be effective - Adebayor this season,and Keane/Crouch in the 09/10 season
 
Look its simple - there are times when playing Defoe is a better option e.g. against Sunderland

There are times playing VDV is a better option e.g. against Swansea.
 
braineclipse said:
Isn't that the exact same criticism (rightly or wrongly) aimed at VdV still?? And isn't that more or less still the same problem people have with Defoe?

I see no reason why that would be better than Ade-VdV or Ade-Defoe/Saha.
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It's wrong becaue VdV do IS closing players down (for example) something Defoe rarely ever do.

I don't think it would be better than VdV-Ade either. They are and remain our best option at present.
 
liquid_football said:
Defoe and VdV up top simply doesn't work...remember last season guys...

Defoe needs an additional striker on the pitch to be effective - Adebayor this season,and Keane/Crouch in the 09/10 season
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And there is the whole problem - he "needs" something, someone, to be able to play.

I know it's a team game, but this has been Spurs problem for a decade. Constant puzzles because this player needed that kind of strike partner, this other player needed that kind of fullback behind him, that kind of fullback needed an inverted winger too, etc. etc etc ...

It's a Spurs disease. It may be found with other teams but it has flourished at old Spurs.

Players like Defoe and Saha need to adapt. They need to build elements to their game. Because to be honest, I don't think any of them are nearly good enough to change formation for nor to leave Ade or VdV out for. There, I said it.
 
Look its simple - there are times when playing Defoe is a better option e.g. against Sunderland

There are times playing VDV is a better option e.g. against Swansea.
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Are you sure Defoe is better than playing VDV in his proper role at Sunderland? I thought everyone was in agreement that VDV was our defence unlocker? He has more effect at home usually, but we had the possession that we'd have at home, so I'm not entirely sure Defoe would have had many chances if he'd been in a team without VDV on Saturday, he'd have been on the right wing if he'd have come in as a straight swap? (Harry has played him there before.) Defoe is excellent at shooting from range, so I'm not saying he shouldn't have had a lot of time in that match, but VDV is good at shooting from range too, so I'd have liked him to have some time in his proper position too. My issue was with Sandro and Parker in a 4-5-1 with VDV playing right midfield.


Defoe was awesome in the Europa League when we had a ton of possession and needed someone to score for us. If we were having a nightmare day against Bolton or something, but we had a lot of possession and created chances but couldn't score, then I'd say it was a game screaming out for Defoe.


For me, Sunderland is a grey area. In a game when our midfield can't get the ball into their third and we don't have many chances, I'm not sure how much the striker matters. Ade played up front in that game and I'm not sure if he had a shot other than the header that was handballed, not because it was his fault but because we couldn't get the ball to him in good positions.

If VDV doesn't get the ball in good positions, he'll come and get it in bad positions. If Defoe doesn't get the ball in good positions, he can't turn up in the semi circle.


There definitely is a time for Defoe to play for us and he should get more minutes than Harry gives him, but I wouldn't pick him ahead of VDV for many matches. VDV is one of our best attacking players, he's maybe the third or fourth most likely player of ours to be dubbed "world class".


Edit: To the above poster. I agree, but Defoe can't add a foot and a half. Maybe he could try a Tevez and try to bulk the hell up, ala Rooney, but that's such a huge change it's too much to ask. I agree though, Defoe's biggest problem is that strikers of his type can't play up front on his own. The only thin lone striker in the world is Messi and he holds the ball up by dribbling around the opposition team.
 
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Fuego said:
Are you sure Defoe is better than playing VDV in his proper role at Sunderland? I thought everyone was in agreement that VDV was our defence unlocker? He has more effect at home usually, but we had the possession that we'd have at home, so I'm not entirely sure Defoe would have had many chances if he'd been in a team without VDV on Saturday, he'd have been on the right wing if he'd have come in as a straight swap? (Harry has played him there before.) Defoe is excellent at shooting from range, so I'm not saying he shouldn't have had a lot of time in that match, but VDV is good at shooting from range too, so I'd have liked him to have some time in his proper position too. My issue was with Sandro and Parker in a 4-5-1 with VDV playing right midfield.


Defoe was awesome in the Europa League when we had a ton of possession and needed someone to score for us. If we were having a nightmare day against Bolton or something, but we had a lot of possession and created chances but couldn't score, then I'd say it was a game screaming out for Defoe.


For me, Sunderland is a grey area. In a game when our midfield can't get the ball into their third and we don't have many chances, I'm not sure how much the striker matters. Ade played up front in that game and I'm not sure if he had a shot other than the header that was handballed, not because it was his fault but because we couldn't get the ball to him in good positions.

If VDV doesn't get the ball in good positions, he'll come and get it in bad positions. If Defoe doesn't get the ball in good positions, he can't turn up in the semi circle.


There definitely is a time for Defoe to play for us and he should get more minutes than Harry gives him, but I wouldn't pick him ahead of VDV for many matches. VDV is one of our best attacking players, he's maybe the third or fourth most likely player of ours to be dubbed "world class".
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I concur.
 
I am surprised Redknapp has not used Defoe that much in recent matches. This despite the lack of goals from the strikers. I think Defoe has got the best scoring record from the bench from all our players.
 
braineclipse said:
Are you talking about two strikers with VdV on the right or VdV behind Defoe in a 4-4-1-1? 4-4-1-1 with VdV and Defoe last season didn't look great at all.
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But it looked pretty good when he played that role ahead of Rooney for England...IMO there is no reason why VdV and Defoe could not link up in a similar way, its just that we didn't give it enough time to make it work.
 
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