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My first ever knee jerk

W

WhoopWhoop

William Gallas
Wind Up Merchant
From top to bottom atm our club is an utter shambles.
We have a manager who simply put hasn't got a clue has got us playing the most dire and depressing football I have seen in my 20 years of following spurs and is just far too stubborn to change anything during a match. 6 goals from open play in our first 12 games? Absolutely pathetic.

We have a chairman who's hell bent on selling our best players summer after summer and replacing them with far inferior players. Not one player in that squad is anywhere near the level of modric vdv or bale. Not one. Ticket prices go up like clockwork no ifs or maybes yet we sell our best players every summer.

We have an obsession as a club from top to bottom over 4th place. 4th this 4th that blah blah it's pathetic we even had players coming out before season had started saying 4th was the target etc we're tottenham hotspurs FFS not west ham or some other tinpot outfit. This obsession with being 4th best team in the country is seriously unhealthy.

And finally our biggest problem IMO is we have a group of uninterested players who have seen the way the club is ran and how easy it is to get a transfer and see us as a stepping stone and nothing else and think **** it I won't be here next year anyway. Don't think any of the players have a genuine 'connection' with the fans.

Seriously ****ed off right now as im writing this sat in the back of my mates **** Peugeot and we're stuck in traffic on the m6 and have spent over a 1er for the privilege of today. That being said.... See you all at united game.
 
To be fair while I have criticised Levy for a fair bit in the past, I think he should be applauded for taking a risk on a manager like AVB, reaffirming his support for the manager, and backing the manager's choices of players (presumably). I'm sure he didn't expect this, and isn't any happier than we are - even if it is just considering the financial risks associated with doing poorly this season. It just looks like, despite the promising form, the horse he backed didn't train on.
 
Excellent post IMO and I would think you are not alone with all of that.

Its the style of play that depresses me the most, defeats you can take, even good hidings, if you can see some light at the end of the tunnel, but I cant.

We arent even entertaining at home anymore, its like we have gone back in time to the mid-90s dross.

Credit to you for making the long journey, we will no doubt making the journey the opposite way next weekend for the United game.
I honestly think after watching that sh#t today, had we not already booked a hotel for the Saturday night, we would have been thinking twice about spunking another £130 for the trip. I'm getting that dismayed with what we're seeing when we go
 
im taking comfort in the fact that i believe we have a good squad of players, we've bought well imv and should AVB prove to be the wrong choice as manager then i can see a successor coming in and improving things with little alterations to the squad
 
Yea I think we've got an excellent, young, well balanced squad, so shouldn't need a total uphaul should the worst come to the worst.
 
Totally agree with the first post that's how I feel. Billy has hot it on the head with us having a decent squad and being able to turn it round but for me AVB is not that man to do it .
 
I always try to take some positives out of a game, but I am really struggling to find any this evening. Indeed, for the first time ever, I am beginning to doubt that AVB is the man for us?
 
WhoopWhoop said:
From top to bottom atm our club is an utter shambles.
We have a manager who simply put hasn't got a clue has got us playing the most dire and depressing football I have seen in my 20 years of following spurs and is just far too stubborn to change anything during a match. 6 goals from open play in our first 12 games? Absolutely pathetic.

We have a chairman who's hell bent on selling our best players summer after summer and replacing them with far inferior players. Not one player in that squad is anywhere near the level of modric vdv or bale. Not one. Ticket prices go up like clockwork no ifs or maybes yet we sell our best players every summer.

We have an obsession as a club from top to bottom over 4th place. 4th this 4th that blah blah it's pathetic we even had players coming out before season had started saying 4th was the target etc we're tottenham hotspurs FFS not west ham or some other tinpot outfit. This obsession with being 4th best team in the country is seriously unhealthy.

And finally our biggest problem IMO is we have a group of uninterested players who have seen the way the club is ran and how easy it is to get a transfer and see us as a stepping stone and nothing else and think **** it I won't be here next year anyway. Don't think any of the players have a genuine 'connection' with the fans.

Seriously ****ed off right now as im writing this sat in the back of my mates **** Peugeot and we're stuck in traffic on the m6 and have spent over a 1er for the privilege of today. That being said.... See you all at united game.
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Ok I am not an AVB apologist and totally understand after that awful performance yesterday how you are feeling especially having travelled and paid to see it live, but being devils advocate:

1) The manager is starting to show some flexibility - switching to 442 and bringin Ade on shows some flexibility;

2) can't argue that our performances are dire, but the manager is trying to instil a possession based system, right or wrong, which has seen us concede the fewest amount of goals at the start of the season. Yesterday was an aberration defensively- Lloris was not up to his usual standard, Daws and KAboul looked like they hadn't played together all season (which they hadnt) and our best CB is playing LB because there is no other left footed alternative.

3) the chairman is not hell bent on selling our best players summer after summer - he cannot be blamed if the best players want to leave (Modric and Bale) for bigger champions league regulars. We can only replace with inferiors players as we cannot attract the world class players since we are not champions league regulars or have a wealthy oil rich benefactor - sad to say but that is the facts. We will attract the odd world class player as we have always done, but until we can prove a long term bet for a top four finish not much we can do.

4) the obsession for a lot of clubs is to get into the champions league and stay in it on a regular basis. You say it is unhealthy but I'd say it was realistic - we are not yet at the same level as the United, Citehs, Arsenals or Chelskis as regular champions league teams, or with pockets big enough to buy our way into the top four. Ask any everton or liverpool fan what their target is and a top four finish is definitely what they would love.

5) re being able to attract and retain top class players and being seen as a stepping stone - of course we are seen as a stepping stone. Until we can regularly get into the top four we will be a stepping stone. Nothing we can do about that until we can prove our pedigree long term to be able to retain the top players. But let's not fool ourselves - if you're not in the top four then every club is a stepping stone. And sadly the wages the top players get paid will always mean that players are less interested in long term staying at one club than maximising their earnings potential in what can be quite a short career.

Having said all of the above, i'm still annoyed about the result yesterday, as I'm sure Levy will be, as I'm sure AVB will be as I'm sure some of the players will be. the real test is whether AVB can turn it around and if not whether Levy will back him man or cut his losses.
 
superfaisty said:
Ok I am not an AVB apologist and totally understand after that awful performance yesterday how you are feeling especially having travelled and paid to see it live, but being devils advocate:

1) The manager is starting to show some flexibility - switching to 442 and bringin Ade on shows some flexibility;

2) can't argue that our performances are dire, but the manager is trying to instil a possession based system, right or wrong, which has seen us concede the fewest amount of goals at the start of the season. Yesterday was an aberration defensively- Lloris was not up to his usual standard, Daws and KAboul looked like they hadn't played together all season (which they hadnt) and our best CB is playing LB because there is no other left footed alternative.

3) the chairman is not hell bent on selling our best players summer after summer - he cannot be blamed if the best players want to leave (Modric and Bale) for bigger champions league regulars. We can only replace with inferiors players as we cannot attract the world class players since we are not champions league regulars or have a wealthy oil rich benefactor - sad to say but that is the facts. We will attract the odd world class player as we have always done, but until we can prove a long term bet for a top four finish not much we can do.

4) the obsession for a lot of clubs is to get into the champions league and stay in it on a regular basis. You say it is unhealthy but I'd say it was realistic - we are not yet at the same level as the United, Citehs, Arsenals or Chelskis as regular champions league teams, or with pockets big enough to buy our way into the top four. Ask any everton or liverpool fan what their target is and a top four finish is definitely what they would love.

5) re being able to attract and retain top class players and being seen as a stepping stone - of course we are seen as a stepping stone. Until we can regularly get into the top four we will be a stepping stone. Nothing we can do about that until we can prove our pedigree long term to be able to retain the top players. But let's not fool ourselves - if you're not in the top four then every club is a stepping stone. And sadly the wages the top players get paid will always mean that players are less interested in long term staying at one club than maximising their earnings potential in what can be quite a short career.

Having said all of the above, i'm still annoyed about the result yesterday, as I'm sure Levy will be, as I'm sure AVB will be as I'm sure some of the players will be. the real test is whether AVB can turn it around and if not whether Levy will back him man or cut his losses.
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I'm sick and tired of this being trotted out time and time again
FFS we never had a problem with keeping possession - why are we trying to be better at keeping possession?
This approach has lead us to 9 ****ing goals all season in the prem - I don't get what you mean by this!!!"???
 
superfaisty said:
Ok I am not an AVB apologist and totally understand after that awful performance yesterday how you are feeling especially having travelled and paid to see it live, but being devils advocate:

1) The manager is starting to show some flexibility - switching to 442 and bringin Ade on shows some flexibility;

2) can't argue that our performances are dire, but the manager is trying to instil a possession based system, right or wrong, which has seen us concede the fewest amount of goals at the start of the season. Yesterday was an aberration defensively- Lloris was not up to his usual standard, Daws and KAboul looked like they hadn't played together all season (which they hadnt) and our best CB is playing LB because there is no other left footed alternative.

3) the chairman is not hell bent on selling our best players summer after summer - he cannot be blamed if the best players want to leave (Modric and Bale) for bigger champions league regulars. We can only replace with inferiors players as we cannot attract the world class players since we are not champions league regulars or have a wealthy oil rich benefactor - sad to say but that is the facts. We will attract the odd world class player as we have always done, but until we can prove a long term bet for a top four finish not much we can do.

4) the obsession for a lot of clubs is to get into the champions league and stay in it on a regular basis. You say it is unhealthy but I'd say it was realistic - we are not yet at the same level as the United, Citehs, Arsenals or Chelskis as regular champions league teams, or with pockets big enough to buy our way into the top four. Ask any everton or liverpool fan what their target is and a top four finish is definitely what they would love.

5) re being able to attract and retain top class players and being seen as a stepping stone - of course we are seen as a stepping stone. Until we can regularly get into the top four we will be a stepping stone. Nothing we can do about that until we can prove our pedigree long term to be able to retain the top players. But let's not fool ourselves - if you're not in the top four then every club is a stepping stone. And sadly the wages the top players get paid will always mean that players are less interested in long term staying at one club than maximising their earnings potential in what can be quite a short career.

Having said all of the above, i'm still annoyed about the result yesterday, as I'm sure Levy will be, as I'm sure AVB will be as I'm sure some of the players will be. the real test is whether AVB can turn it around and if not whether Levy will back him man or cut his losses.
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So what if our best players want to leave fuvk em time Levy grew some balls and said you're going nowhere it's no suprise Liverpool are doing so well this season after doing it with their best player.
 
WhoopWhoop said:
So what if our best players want to leave fuvk em time Levy grew some balls and said you're going nowhere it's no suprise Liverpool are doing so well this season after doing it with their best player.
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He did with Modric when Chelsea wanted him. The following season he did a Berbatov. Levy won't, and nor should he, let a player's value drop just to prove a point. Sometimes it's better to sell than keep a player around to sulk and not be at his best.
 
Hashegotthesackyet? said:
But then all a player needs to do is sulk, and he's off.
I suspected that Suarez would sulk, but Liverpool held firm and look at the results.
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If he's worth 10s of millions it can be that easy. Only problem for Suarez was that there was nowhere to go. Only Arsenal were interested, but Liverpool would still get what they offered a year from now. It was a gamble worth taking.
 
kanoute16 said:
I'm sick and tired of this being trotted out time and time again
FFS we never had a problem with keeping possession - why are we trying to be better at keeping possession?
This approach has lead us to 9 ****ing goals all season in the prem - I don't get what you mean by this!!!"???
Click to expand...

Mate I was trying to play devils advocate and also be a bit more balanced and less emotional.

IMHO We have had problems with possession since we lost our best players ie modric for example. A possession based game isn't itself a bad thing the problem comes with what the players do with that possession and the pace of the passing and the movement.

Sadly our lot seem happy to just knock it around for the sack of knocking around ad with no creative playmaker in the side that's all they can do. Noone seems to be looking for the opening, everyone fairly static the ball always seem to go backwards when teams press us. No one is willing to take a chance. It's this that us killing our game not the fact were trying to keep possession.

Personally I'm old school in that I've always preferred a system with out and out wingers providing width and crosses be that in a 442 or 4411 or 4231 formation. We have always been a team that's played with width even if we've not always been successful. I'd love to see AVB unleash Lennon and Townsend on the wings with Lamela drifting around behind ADE or Soldado. Just my humble opinion.
 
Hashegotthesackyet? said:
But then all a player needs to do is sulk, and he's off.
I suspected that Suarez would sulk, but Liverpool held firm and look at the results.
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Liverpool did not have the kind of offer for Suarez that we had for Bale. As far as we know the only offer they had was the Goons $40,000,001. With Bale, Modders, Barba and Carrick it was all very different.
 
superfaisty said:
Ok I am not an AVB apologist and totally understand after that awful performance yesterday how you are feeling especially having travelled and paid to see it live, but being devils advocate:

1) The manager is starting to show some flexibility - switching to 442 and bringin Ade on shows some flexibility;

Only in a reactive manager. I dislike reactive people, I like proactiveness. AVB has been pushed into a corner here and only now will he (perhaps) change things around. As far as im concerned, whilst there is an element of formations etc, it is more about tactics and the mentality of the players that he instills. You can play 442 but if he still tells them to maintain possession, build up slowly - we will still face the same issues. Its urgency and pace in how we play that we need.


2) can't argue that our performances are dire, but the manager is trying to instil a possession based system, right or wrong, which has seen us concede the fewest amount of goals at the start of the season. Yesterday was an aberration defensively- Lloris was not up to his usual standard, Daws and KAboul looked like they hadn't played together all season (which they hadnt) and our best CB is playing LB because there is no other left footed alternative.

Are we really going to harp on about this? No one is impressed that we have a tonne more possession than the other team because thats totally negated by our goals and wins and chances created. Its SO predictable, boring, dull and SO easy to play against. Man ****ty let us have the ball yesterday, so have other teams, why? because we have nothing up front. So the possession based game has flattered to decieve on so many levels

3) the chairman is not hell bent on selling our best players summer after summer - he cannot be blamed if the best players want to leave (Modric and Bale) for bigger champions league regulars. We can only replace with inferiors players as we cannot attract the world class players since we are not champions league regulars or have a wealthy oil rich benefactor - sad to say but that is the facts. We will attract the odd world class player as we have always done, but until we can prove a long term bet for a top four finish not much we can do.

I agree wholeheartedly

4) the obsession for a lot of clubs is to get into the champions league and stay in it on a regular basis. You say it is unhealthy but I'd say it was realistic - we are not yet at the same level as the United, Citehs, Arsenals or Chelskis as regular champions league teams, or with pockets big enough to buy our way into the top four. Ask any everton or liverpool fan what their target is and a top four finish is definitely what they would love.

I would argue we should be aiming for the league (well at the start of the season and with a (what I consider) to be a fairly proven Manager adept at getting the best out of his players.

5) re being able to attract and retain top class players and being seen as a stepping stone - of course we are seen as a stepping stone. Until we can regularly get into the top four we will be a stepping stone. Nothing we can do about that until we can prove our pedigree long term to be able to retain the top players. But let's not fool ourselves - if you're not in the top four then every club is a stepping stone. And sadly the wages the top players get paid will always mean that players are less interested in long term staying at one club than maximising their earnings potential in what can be quite a short career.

Agree again.

Having said all of the above, i'm still annoyed about the result yesterday, as I'm sure Levy will be, as I'm sure AVB will be as I'm sure some of the players will be. the real test is whether AVB can turn it around and if not whether Levy will back him man or cut his losses.
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Im one of those that, whilst not his biggest fan and didnt want him here, would give him till end of the season if for no other reason than I think its easier to get an aept and higher quality replacement after the World Cup or rather end of the season
 
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A great big bumpety bump. Everything I said proven once again. Can't wait to see what gems we sign once levy gets his hands on the vertonghen and Lloris money
 
Agree the possession line is **** poor, possession doesn't score goals, goals win games.

First game this year my belief in the AVB project is waning. Have to be honest and the way Levy is, wouldn't be surprised if AVB didn't see in the New Year at WHL...

Would love to see Hoddle given another crack with this technical bunch of players....
 
In fairness though, we are Tottenham Hotspur not Real Madrid. What ready made class players are going to want to sign for us when we can't offer £250k a week nor Champions League football. You bang on about people obsession with 4th spot. The point is 4th is the start of it, you can't go from 8th to champions in one go, you need to take steps. Fourth gives a shot at Champions League, which in turn gives you a platform to advertise the club to a higher calibre of player, who then signs and keeps the team in the top four. Years of this results in more quality players with the chance to cherry pick the best young players in the country, who could then grow into the next big player for the club.

You want class players??? Well either we get bought by an oil baron who is happy to splunk all their own cash on a bunch of footballers or you hope that we get a class of 92 come through who are Spurs through and through and carry us into the future.
 
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