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Moussa Sissoko

LemonadeMoney said:
How good is Poch? He keeps making the same mistake and we still beat Madrid.
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Eric Djemba-Djemba - 39 appearances
Kleberson - 30 appearances
Mark Bosnich - 23 appearances
Juan Sebastian Veron - 82 appearances
Owen Hargreaves - 39 appearances
Gabriel Obertan - 14 appearances

That's just one manager at one club in one decade. Sometimes, really good managers buy and play bad (or past it) players. Sometimes that team is successful despite said players, not because of them.
 
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glorygloryeze said:
So should we get rid of all our players who don't make our 18 man squad when all are fit?:D

In fact why don't you list anyone else in or around our team/squad who "is not good for Spurs"?
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He's the only one getting a start and the only one that cost a lot of money.
 
scaramanga said:
Eric Djemba-Djemba - 39 appearances
Kleberson - 30 appearances
Mark Bosnich - 23 appearances
Juan Sebastian Veron - 82 appearances
Owen Hargreaves - 39 appearances
Gabriel Obertan - 14 appearances

That's just one manager at one club in one decade. Sometimes, really good managers buy and play bad players. Sometimes that team is successful despite said players, not because of them.
Click to expand...

Lol, whilst no manager is perfect, none of the best TEAMS are perfect, and probably can never be.
We have grown because we have a TEAM ethos and different players bring different attributes and luckily we have a manager who works as an alchemist to meld the best fits he has together. Refreshingly different to the old days where we relied on a few stars or fell apart if one or two pieces of our team were unavailable.

We have to start thinking of our team differently and appreciate that we have strengths and weaknesses in all our players; Sissoko brings something to the table ultimately and if he can appear on the list above in years to come (i.e. players who weren't great but who won PL medals) then all will be good in your world
 
harr1984 said:
I dont know mate, but I know it was 0-0 when Sissoko came on....
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We outplayed Real for free opening half an hour, just fine margins that we didn't score. Or how about the Liverpool game? Not so easy to dismiss with a one sentence comment is it?

You made what I would consider controversial comments about the value Sissoko brings to our team. You're showing no interest in backing those up.
 
scaramanga said:
Eric Djemba-Djemba - 39 appearances
Kleberson - 30 appearances
Mark Bosnich - 23 appearances
Juan Sebastian Veron - 82 appearances
Owen Hargreaves - 39 appearances
Gabriel Obertan - 14 appearances

That's just one manager at one club in one decade. Sometimes, really good managers buy and play bad (or past it) players. Sometimes that team is successful despite said players, not because of them.
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You really are reaching. Hargreaves was decent, Veron had obvious quality but didnt reach his potential there - but he had some great games there nonetheless. Yes Obertan was awful....
 
harr1984 said:
I never said they dont put in a shift, its about the areas that they are putting in a shift. Knowing Sissoko is a willing runner up and down limits the space in what they have to cover because he covers greater distances than them.....
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I vehemently deny the idea Sissoko runs more than anyone else. Have you seen the distance our team covers? Eriksen is a machine! Alli, Kane, Wanyama, Winks, Vertonghen... it goes on. EVERYONE covers a hell of a lot of ground.

And I also deny the idea he somehow runs into special areas that others dont. If thats what your argument boils down to then Im afraid the consistent argument against still applies - he simply isnt as good as his team mates, who can do all that he can AND more besides.


glorygloryeze said:
Nkoudou isn't making the bench - and it's not like we couldn't use his kind of pace. My point is that Poch clearly sees him as useful and we don't need to keep this 'Church of the Sissoko hate' going, especially when we are winning; and no we are not winning 'despite' him; he is contributing and we are a TEAM and if he wasn't even now there are enough options for him not be used as he has been
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Nkoudou is a winger, is he not? Havent people been arguing how Sissoko needs to be played in CM. Is there even a comparison here?

And if this is where you are reaching for a counter to the argument, doesnt it kind of prove the point of those not defending Sissoko at all costs?

I disagree that there are other options. And I think in time that will be proven. As players return from injury I dont see Sissoko being preferred to them. So, we will see.

As to the Church of hate nonsense, come on now, dont be silly.

I dont hate him at all. I just recognise him as an extremely limited player - especially when compared to his team mates. If there is a church, believing in a mythical and imaginary figure, it would be those stretching all credibility to stand up for Sissoko and their perceived campaign against him.

Calling a player limited, because he is limited, isnt being out of line - its simple critique.
 
braineclipse said:
We outplayed Real for free opening half an hour, just fine margins that we didn't score. Or how about the Liverpool game? Not so easy to dismiss with a one sentence comment is it?

You made what I would consider controversial comments about the value Sissoko brings to our team. You're showing no interest in backing those up.
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What was controversial about what he said Sissoko brings to the team?
 
braineclipse said:
We outplayed Real for free opening half an hour, just fine margins that we didn't score. Or how about the Liverpool game? Not so easy to dismiss with a one sentence comment is it?

You made what I would consider controversial comments about the value Sissoko brings to our team. You're showing no interest in backing those up.
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What about the Liverpool game? We had Dier there doing exactly the same thing, covering the areas to allow the more technical players to play. Dier isnt really much better on the ball than Sissoko, and at least Sissoko carries the ball forward when running with it. Controversial comments? Jeez, dont be over dramatic....
 
glorygloryeze said:
Lol, whilst no manager is perfect, none of the best TEAMS are perfect, and probably can never be.
We have grown because we have a TEAM ethos and different players bring different attributes and luckily we have a manager who works as an alchemist to meld the best fits he has together. Refreshingly different to the old days where we relied on a few stars or fell apart if one or two pieces of our team were unavailable.

We have to start thinking of our team differently and appreciate that we have strengths and weaknesses in all our players; Sissoko brings something to the table ultimately and if he can appear on the list above in years to come (i.e. players who weren't great but who won PL medals) then all will be good in your world
Click to expand...
So far all I've seen that he has which our other players don't is the ability to run really fast.

Ignoring Nkoudou, every other midfielder we have massively outclasses him either defensively or offensively whilst being pretty close on the other measure. Aside from Nkoudou (who was a decent punt for not much money IIRC), there is not a single midfielder in our squad that would weaken us by replacing Sissoko.
 
harr1984 said:
What about the Liverpool game? We had Dier there doing exactly the same thing, covering the areas to allow the more technical players to play. Dier isnt really much better on the ball than Sissoko, and at least Sissoko carries the ball forward when running with it. Controversial comments? Jeez, dont be over dramatic....
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:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I vehemently deny the idea Sissoko runs more than anyone else. Have you seen the distance our team covers? Eriksen is a machine! Alli, Kane, Wanyama, Winks, Vertonghen... it goes on. EVERYONE covers a hell of a lot of ground.

And I also deny the idea he somehow runs into special areas that others dont. If thats what your argument boils down to then Im afraid the consistent argument against still applies - he simply isnt as good as his team mates, who can do all that he can AND more besides.




Nkoudou is a winger, is he not? Havent people been arguing how Sissoko needs to be played in CM. Is there even a comparison here?

And if this is where you are reaching for a counter to the argument, doesnt it kind of prove the point of those not defending Sissoko at all costs?

I disagree that there are other options. And I think in time that will be proven. As players return from injury I dont see Sissoko being preferred to them. So, we will see.

As to the Church of hate nonsense, come on now, dont be silly.

I dont hate him at all. I just recognise him as an extremely limited player - especially when compared to his team mates. If there is a church, believing in a mythical and imaginary figure, it would be those stretching all credibility to stand up for Sissoko and their perceived campaign against him.

Calling a player limited, because he is limited, isnt being out of line - its simple critique.
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Sissoko has indeed got some limitations; but the fact is he brings an athleticism that few can match in our team: for example, how many players can run the distance he can and at the pace he can? I don't see why this cannot be acknowledged, plus the fact he is continually being used by Poch. Nkoudou is another that brings similar pace but doesn't make the bench most games, unlike Sissoko who as i say is seen by Poch as bringing more to the table, hence more involved.
 
harr1984 said:
You really are reaching. Hargreaves was decent, Veron had obvious quality but didnt reach his potential there - but he had some great games there nonetheless. Yes Obertan was awful....
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Hargreaves and Veron were both dogbrick in the UK, yet a very good manager persisted with them. Point being, Poch persisting with Sissoko doesn't make Sissoko good or Poch bad.
 
scaramanga said:
So far all I've seen that he has which our other players don't is the ability to run really fast.

Ignoring Nkoudou, every other midfielder we have massively outclasses him either defensively or offensively whilst being pretty close on the other measure. Aside from Nkoudou (who was a decent punt for not much money IIRC), there is not a single midfielder in our squad that would weaken us by replacing Sissoko.
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All depennds on the game, the situation and the context. Away to Arsenal if Sissoko doesn't start, i'd expect him to come on in last 20 mins or so to stretch them, push them back, help out the right-back if getting doubled-up pacewise etc.

We have seen Sissoko benefits in that regard, plus he contributed to a good tactical gameplan at the Bernabau. Again, it's a squad game and we have a manager who uses our SQUAD appropriately for certain situations. Including Sissoko
 
glorygloryeze said:
All depennds on the game, the situation and the context. Away to Arsenal if Sissoko doesn't start, i'd expect him to come on in last 20 mins or so to stretch them, push them back, help out the right-back if getting doubled-up pacewise etc.

We have seen Sissoko benefits in that regard, plus he contributed to a good tactical gameplan at the Bernabau. Again, it's a squad game and we have a manager who uses our SQUAD appropriately for certain situations. Including Sissoko
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If we need what Sissoko brings, why don't we just buy a good Sissoko?
 
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