Mousa Dembele

[billyiddo]

That has nothing to do with ihs terrible finishing, questionable work-rate and general lack of confidence in front of goal. Dembele or Parker don't take his shots for him.

For whatever reason - he's struggled this season and hopefully can come back stronger in the Septmeber

but we're talking about the through ball stats aren't we?

a better midfield behind means our forward will get picked out more. the last couple of games Ive noticed him ready to break several times but no one was looking to play the pass in behind.

 

[ArcspacE]

I don't know what you are trying to say man. Here is what I am saying just for clarity! Parker statistically is our best forward passer this season. Parker is a poor creative player. That is why we aren't creative. A good creative passer can actually force players with poor movement to have good movement, and works the other way too. A striker with good movement can give poor passers something different to aim for. Basically Dembele hasn't been creative enough, to bring this thing back to topic!

Hey man

Our strikers have been just as poor to make themselves available or make any sort of incisive runs in the box

Now that Bale's gone - our attacks reach the box, opponent predictably retreats, we pass alongside the box, we get pushed back, we play back to Lloris - restart

We have zero movement AND creativity in the final third - and number of 'positions' are responsible for that, not just Dembele

 

[ArcspacE]

but we're talking about the through ball stats aren't we?

a better midfield behind means our forward will get picked out more.

Yes, and an in-form striker would make more / cleverer runs to receive through balls. Egg and chicken.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Hey man

Our strikers have been just as poor to make themselves available or make any sort of incisive runs in the box

Now that Bale's gone - our attacks reach the box, opponent predictably retreats, we pass alongside the box, we get pushed back, we play back to Lloris - restart

We have zero movement AND creativity in the final third - and number of 'positions' are responsible for that, not just Dembele

I am not blaming just Dembele. But this is a Dembele thread and to me those stats demonstrate that Dembele isn't doing enough creatively for a man of his talent.

And I don't agree with you that our strikers are poor. They got us to 4th last year and Defoe has been at the club during our most successful era for a loooooong time.

 

[Spursalot]

I am not blaming just Dembele. But this is a Dembele thread and to me those stats demonstrate that Dembele isn't doing enough creatively for a man of his talent.

And I don't agree with you that our strikers are poor. They got us to 4th last year and Defoe has been at the club during our most successful era for a loooooong time.

Him being at the club for a long time does not mean he hasn't had a poor season.


Also that they got us to 4th last year does not mean they have not been poor this year.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Him being at the club for a long time does not mean he hasn't had a poor season.


Also that they got us to 4th last year does not mean they have not been poor this year.

Not sure 4th can equate to poor. Guess it is all about expectations! I thought Defoe was playing brilliantly first half of the season and since then he has struggled to get back into the side.

 

[Spursalot]

Not sure 4th can equate to poor. Guess it is all about expectations! I thought Defoe was playing brilliantly first half of the season and since then he has struggled to get back into the side.

Er. 4th isn't poor. Finishing fourth does not mean all of our players have played well though. Plus we're not fourth.


Defoe played brilliantly for about a quarter of the season, then did his usual vanishing act.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Wow, so this season Parker is our best passer at putting in through balls. No wonder we seem to struggle creatively, especially as his rate is the same last year. Dembele needs to do more of that, what was his ratio?

According to http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/30

[table="width: 450, class: grid"]
[tr] [td]Player (2012/13)[/td] [td]Through Balls completed (attempted)[/td] [td]Player (2011/12)[/td] [td]Through Balls completed (attempted)[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Lennon[/td] [td]5 (10)[/td] [td]Modric[/td] [td]17 (36)[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Dempsey[/td] [td]5 (6)[/td] [td]van der Vaart[/td] [td]13 (38 )[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Defoe[/td] [td]5 (6)[/td][td]Bale[/td] [td]10 (22)[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Parker[/td] [td]4 (8 )[/td] [td]Parker[/td] [td]8 (15)[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Walker[/td] [td]4 (7)[/td] [td]Adebayor[/td] [td]7 (9)[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Sandro[/td] [td]3 (3)[/td] [td]Lennon[/td] [td]4 (6)[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Naughton[/td] [td]2 (3)[/td] [td]Defoe[/td] [td]3 (5)[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Dembele[/td] [td]2 (3)[/td] [td]Walker[/td] [td]3 (10)[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Sigurdsson[/td] [td]2 (9)[/td] [td]Assou-Ekotto[/td] [td]2 (5)[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Vertonghen[/td] [td]2 (7)[/td] [td]Livermore[/td] [td]1 (2)[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Adebayor[/td] [td]1 (2)[/td] [td]Kaboul[/td] [td]1 (3)[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Holtby[/td] [td]1 (3)[/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]TOTAL[/td] [td]36 (67)[/td] [td]TOTAL[/td] [td]69 (151)[/td] [/tr]
[/table]

 

[billyiddo]

so by taking out VdV and Modrics contribution from last season, it leaves you with 39 from 77. . .


which is pretty damn close to our totals this season :-k

 

[Spursalot]

so taking by taking out VdV and Modric from last seasons totals it leaves you with 39 from 77


which is pretty damn close to our totals this season...

Though last season has finished, and this one hasn't.


We're not that far off last seasons goals tally either.


Last season we scored 66, we conceded 41.

This season we've scored 55 and conceded 40 with 6 games to go.

(1.7 scored per game, so around 10 more to come this season)

 

[billyiddo]

true, but by looking at the per game statistic posted earlier we possibly won't see this seasons figure leap up a great deal.

still highlights that we have suffered a great deal in losing the two of them (not that it was in much doubt for most) creatively speaking at least

 

[Spursalot]

true, but by looking at the per game statistic posted earlier we possibly won't see this seasons figure leap up a great deal.

still highlights that we have suffered a great deal in losing the two of them (not that it was in much doubt for most) creatively speaking at least

To me it highlights that we're playing a different style this season and on track to score as many as last.

However our defence has struggled to adapt to the new system at times.

 

[billyiddo]

To me it highlights that we're playing a different style this season and on track to score as many as last.

However our defence has struggled to adapt to the new system at times.

hold on, weren't you saying recently that we lacked creativity in the middle of the pitch alongside Sandro and Dembele? these stats back that up, surely

 

[Spursalot]

hold on, weren't you saying recently that we lacked creativity in the middle of the pitch alongside Sandro and Dembele? these stats back that up, surely

Not entirely, but comparing it to last season it seems wrong somehow. We lack creativity yet we're going to score as many goals, even with a misfiring Ade and a misfiring Defoe?


Yet you can't argue that our defence will let in more than last season.

 

[Modric THFC]

The poor guy has been carrying an injury for most the season.
He and Sandro together were dominating opposition 3 man midfields at one point.

 

[billyiddo]

Not entirely, but comparing it to last season it seems wrong somehow. We lack creativity yet we're going to score as many goals, even with a misfiring Ade and a misfiring Defoe?


Yet you can't argue that our defence will let in more than last season.

firstly a chance created stat might be a better one to look at, but id imagine that a through ball stat is closely linked to a chance created stat . . . anyway - what with the debates about us not playing as well as last season and not replacing key positions with the right caliber of player etc i think that those stats highlight quite well potential reasons why it is that way - we aren't playing well (in an attacking sense) and that is in part down to not replacing our two most creative players from the past two seasons - we tried to replace Modric with Mouthino and in a round about way we tried to replace VdV with Willian (by switching Bale to the middle and putting Willian on the left) having either Modric and VdV or the two primary targets for replacements in the side this season would almost definitely see us playing a more attractive attacking style of football (and more effective)

it's not like we sold Modric and VdV and planned never to replace them because our system doesn't need them.this summer hopefully we will see them adequately replaced and people will see a better representation of what the manager wants from the team. Ive said it a few times the past couple of weeks or so, so forgive me for repeating myself - but our transition from Harrys team to Villa Boas' is far from complete - we couldn't get ourselves Mouthino and Willian so we patched it up, hopefully with the intention of bringing in some players of that ilk in these roles this summer

 

[Spursalot]

firstly a chance created stat might be a better one to look at, but id imagine that a through ball stat is closely linked to a chance created stat . . . anyway - what with the debates about us not playing as well as last season and not replacing key positions with the right caliber of player etc i think that those stats highlight quite well potential reasons why it is that way - we aren't playing well (in an attacking sense) and that is in part down to not replacing our two most creative players from the past two seasons - we tried to replace Modric with Mouthino and in a round about way we tried to replace VdV with Willian (by switching Bale to the middle and putting Willian on the left) having either Modric and VdV or the two primary targets for replacements in the side this season would almost definitely see us playing a more attractive attacking style of football (and more effective)

it's not like we sold Modric and VdV and planned never to replace them because our system doesn't need them.this summer hopefully we will see them adequately replaced and people will see a better representation of what the manager wants from the team

See there is the part that makes no sense though. 'We aren't playing well (in an attacking sense)'.

We're on course to score as many as last season at this rate (or near thereabouts), were we not playing well in an attacking sense then? Or are the goals not as important as i recall? Would everyone be far happier if we were creating more chances and missing them? Like we were last season?

In my view we are playing well in an attacking sense. In our last four games we've scored two in every game. Eight goals in four games. What more are you expecting? What we have failed in is our defensive duties.

What we are not doing is playing the pretty looking football that we played in previous seasons. I think people are forgetting that ugly football can be just as effective as pretty football just as this season is currently showing us.

Chance creation stats are good, but what they really tell you is how many chances you are failing to convert.

 

[billyiddo]

'an attacking sense' isn't only referring to goals scored - it's chances created and style as well (imv). regarding the latter two i think you'll be hard pushed to find anyone who thinks we're playing as well as last season in that sense.

we are effective, that's for sure and im happy with how the season has panned out - all im saying is, once we replace Modric and/or VdV (which i believe we will do, based on the fact we have been in for Mouthino and later on Willian) then i think we will move on from being purely effective (to a certain level) but we will start to look better, create more chances and score more goals.

i don't believe AVB see's this side to be complete in same way that Redknapp would have probably looked at his starting XI last season - we're still 2/3 players short of being in that place - creativity through the middle clearly something we are missing alongside fire power, once we get him something closer to what he wants in those areas we'll be a much better side than we are now

 

[SteveAWOL]

Key Passes for past 2 seasons in league

[table="width: 450, class: grid"]
[tr] [td]Player 2012/13[/td] [td]Key Passes [/td] [td]Player 2011/12[/td] [td]Key Passes[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Bale[/td] [td]65[/td] [td]Modric[/td] [td]96[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Lennon[/td] [td]59[/td] [td]Bale[/td] [td]84[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Walker[/td] [td]51[/td] [td]vdV[/td] [td]75[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Dembele[/td] [td]48 [/td] [td]Adebayor[/td] [td]61[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Defoe[/td] [td]28[/td] [td]Lennon[/td] [td]39[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Dempsey[/td] [td]26 [/td] [td]BAE[/td] [td]45[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Sigurdsson[/td] [td]24[/td] [td]Walker[/td] [td]34[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Adebayor[/td] [td]22[/td] [td]Parker[/td] [td]22[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Sandro[/td] [td]20[/td] [td]Kranjcar[/td] [td]17[/td][/tr]
[tr] [td]Vertonghen[/td] [td]20[/td] [td]Defoe[/td] [td]15[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Parker[/td] [td]16[/td] [td]Sandro[/td] [td]11[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]BAE[/td] [td]10[/td] [td]Livermore[/td] [td]11[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Naughton[/td] [td]9[/td] [td]Kaboul[/td] [td]7[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Huddlestone[/td] [td]8[/td] [td]Saha[/td] [td]3[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Holtby[/td] [td]8[/td] [td]Huddlestone[/td] [td]3[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Caulker[/td] [td]7[/td] [td]Pavlyuchenko[/td] [td]2[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Townsend[/td] [td]5[/td] [td]Crouch[/td] [td]2[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Livermore[/td] [td]5[/td] [td]Bassong + Dawson + Rose[/td] [td]3[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]VdV[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]GDS + Lancaster[/td] [td]3[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]Carroll + Kaboul[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]Gallas + Friedel[/td] [td]2[/td] [/tr]
[tr] [td]TOTAL[/td] [td]435 (after 32 games)[/td] [td]TOTAL[/td] [td]534 (after 38 games)[/td] [/tr]
[/table]

 

[billyiddo]

no totals on that one Steve