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Mitt Romney the next new leader of the free world!!!

Romney didn't crush anyone. Obama was sleepy for that one though. Didn't strike like lightning, but he was a bit more dignified in his approach. In fact, his approach was so far from what we've expected when seeing debaters attack Mitt Romney, the most recent ones being in the primaries. If anything, maybe Obama was just trying not to come off as 'angry.'

You're biased because you're for Romney; I'm biased because I'm for Obama.

What I do appreciate though is the fact that Obama didn't skirt the truth or beat around the bush in that debate. Romney was very good at being slippery in that debate, and again he was able to dodge questions on what his tax plan would entail with specifics. A lot of Romney's attacks were unsubstantiated or plain wrong, like how he claimed Obama was unwilling to reach across the aisle. That's flimflam because we all know that after 2010 and the Republican takeover of the House, they purposefully worked against Obama's agenda and against any sort of bipartisan agreement. See debt ceiling stand-off and eventual lowering of our credit rating as proof of that. Republicans were unwilling to let the tax cuts for the wealthy to expire (Obama wanted to renew the cuts for the middle-class).

Basically, the Republican party has relied on formulating giant lies that seem to last the test of time and public scrutiny, probably because our laws are so convoluted and that we as Americans suck at math. Every citizen needs to do their homework on all the numbers that are thrown out there and you will see who is correct and who is incorrect. And no, I don't mean fact-check statistics using studies by the Chamber of Commerce or the Heritage Foundation. That's just reaching back into the echo chamber to pull out more fabricated and massaged data.

So again, even though Romney asserted himself more, it means nothing to me because I'm more interested in their platforms and the facts. Many of his numbers were a bit wacky, especially every time Republicans bring up the $716 billion cut to Medicare, which is actually just savings and the same thing that Ryan proposed. Are Republicans really unwilling to realize that inconvenient little fact? Are people too lazy to do some independent research instead of letting Fox News spew their flimflam out of the television screen?

No, apparently facts don't matter. People just don't like Obama, he's the boogey-man. Like he has the power alone to enact all the legislation he wants... please, some people are too naive.
 
From the bits I heard Romney definitely had the upper hand. He sounded convincing and made a lot of sense in some of the things he said, while Obama was hesitant. The fact that Romney's policies, where they exist, don't fit with his stated principles and owe inspiration to the tooth-fairy where they do exist isn't the issue. Romney came over better and I fear he will convince some people who are not better informed, especially after the Fox News and talk radio spin. Romney is liar but a convincing lair and that makes him dangerous.
 
jts1882 said:
From the bits I heard Romney definitely had the upper hand. He sounded convincing and made a lot of sense in some of the things he said, while Obama was hesitant. The fact that Romney's policies, where they exist, don't fit with his stated principles and owe inspiration to the tooth-fairy where they do exist isn't the issue. Romney came over better and I fear he will convince some people who are not better informed, especially after the Fox News and talk radio spin. Romney is liar but a convincing lair and that makes him dangerous.
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What's are the key things/dates coming up in the lead up to the election?
 
papaspur said:
Romney didn't crush anyone. Obama was sleepy for that one though. Didn't strike like lightning, but he was a bit more dignified in his approach. In fact, his approach was so far from what we've expected when seeing debaters attack Mitt Romney, the most recent ones being in the primaries. If anything, maybe Obama was just trying not to come off as 'angry.'

You're biased because you're for Romney; I'm biased because I'm for Obama.

What I do appreciate though is the fact that Obama didn't skirt the truth or beat around the bush in that debate. Romney was very good at being slippery in that debate, and again he was able to dodge questions on what his tax plan would entail with specifics. A lot of Romney's attacks were unsubstantiated or plain wrong, like how he claimed Obama was unwilling to reach across the aisle. That's flimflam because we all know that after 2010 and the Republican takeover of the House, they purposefully worked against Obama's agenda and against any sort of bipartisan agreement. See debt ceiling stand-off and eventual lowering of our credit rating as proof of that. Republicans were unwilling to let the tax cuts for the wealthy to expire (Obama wanted to renew the cuts for the middle-class).

Basically, the Republican party has relied on formulating giant lies that seem to last the test of time and public scrutiny, probably because our laws are so convoluted and that we as Americans suck at math. Every citizen needs to do their homework on all the numbers that are thrown out there and you will see who is correct and who is incorrect. And no, I don't mean fact-check statistics using studies by the Chamber of Commerce or the Heritage Foundation. That's just reaching back into the echo chamber to pull out more fabricated and massaged data.

So again, even though Romney asserted himself more, it means nothing to me because I'm more interested in their platforms and the facts. Many of his numbers were a bit wacky, especially every time Republicans bring up the $716 billion cut to Medicare, which is actually just savings and the same thing that Ryan proposed. Are Republicans really unwilling to realize that inconvenient little fact? Are people too lazy to do some independent research instead of letting Fox News spew their flimflam out of the television screen?

No, apparently facts don't matter. People just don't like Obama, he's the boogey-man. Like he has the power alone to enact all the legislation he wants... please, some people are too naive.
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You're paranoid. Both sides told lies and half-truths. This debate will be fact checked to hell. Here's the way to look at it. If you were voting for Obama, you're still voting for him. If you were voting for Romney, you still are. If you were undecided and don't have a fact checker handy (therefore looking at style and confidence), Romney won this round hands down. If you were undecided and a fact checker, well, let's wait for the fact checkers to fact check.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/03/cnn-poll-romney-wins-debate-by-big-margin/

You had people on MSNBC, the liberal equivalent of Fox, criticizing Obama for his performance and praising Romney for his effectiveness and poise. You don't usually see that unless it's pretty one-sided.
 
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NewYorkSpurs said:
You're paranoid. Both sides told lies and half-truths. This debate will be fact checked to hell. Here's the way to look at it. If you were voting for Obama, you're still voting for him. If you were voting for Romney, you still are. If you were undecided and don't have a fact checker handy (therefore looking at style and confidence), Romney won this round hands down. If you were undecided and a fact checker, well, let's wait for the fact checkers to fact check.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/03/cnn-poll-romney-wins-debate-by-big-margin/

You had people on MSNBC, the liberal equivalent of Fox, criticizing Obama for his performance and praising Romney for his effectiveness and poise. You don't usually see that unless it's pretty one-sided.
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The notion that both sides are equally dishonest or not as forthcoming with the truth is a media-perpetuated lie. They constantly claim that they're simply finding the balance, but they give credence to things like the birther issue. It's false equivalency. Simply put, they both lie, but the amount of lies and distortions from the right-wing far outweigh those from the left.

The MSNBC pundits were very tinkled off, no doubt. They wanted Obama to come out swinging and to show more passion. I did find the debate boring and I was expecting Obama to go on the attack more. My point is simply this: all the style in the world won't make up for the complete lack of substance that Romney showed. Again, Obama was misleading on some claims, but it seems that just because you might disagree with some of his points, you're more inclined to think he was lying the whole time.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/debates/presidential/2012-10-03#fact-checks
I was watching the live fact-checkers while watching the debate. For some claims, like the fact that food stamps have gone up, all I can respond with is "Yeah, no brick." We're trying to weather one of the worst recessions in our history, does it not make sense that more people will require a helping hand when jobs are so difficult to come by? I already talked about the flimflam $716 billion... Romney is still evasive when it comes to going into details about his tax plan. I'm really not sure how he plans to cut the deficit (which hasn't doubled under Obama) without raising new revenue.

Bottom line is this: if you're really fudging wealthy and stand to make lots of money in the foreseeable future, then I understand that it is in your best interests to vote for Romney. Obama did explicitly state that he wants to raise taxes/let Bush-era tax cuts on the wealthy expire. However, America only does well when EVERYONE does well. The top 1%, or even .1% don't need anyone to fight for them. They've got it good, paying some of the lowest tax rates in history. But if you're receiving government aid of any kind, Romney will look at you with contempt, as evidenced by his 47% statement. That percentage is mostly seniors and students, but Republicans and Democrats receive handouts from the government on an equal basis.
 
P.D. said:
If Romney didnt win it then how come all the polls say he did
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If I could come into a debate with a bunch of fantastical statistics that are straight up lies, I'd imagine I could do well in a debate. The moderator left it up to the viewer to do their own fact-checking, which was easy because Romney mostly brought the same bogus statistics with him.
Honestly, Obama didn't look great in that debate. As I mentioned before, he might've just been trying not to come off as "that angry guy" or maybe just wanted to avoid making any gaffes because he's got a pretty comfortable lead in the polls. He needs to have Bill Clinton in the green room firing him up and telling him to rip Romney apart. I also think it's difficult to attack Romney because his positions keep changing.
 
Mitt Romney is a dangerous man.
He is literally able to just say what people want to hear with no immediate consequences, and do so with a sociopathic smile and charm about his manner.
I genuinely felt Obama got caught in the 'Gore' trap i.e. if I patronize him too much, if I slam him hard, I will be looked at as a smarmy bully.

Tragically, intelligence and honesty are NOT pre-requisite qualities to win these Presidential debates.

Last night, Romney basically said (in a very authorative way) that he people would be able to have their cake and eat it. EVERYONE wants to hear THAT. No-one gives a flying fudge that Obama has had to battle 9 years of down-the-bricker war economy thanks to Bush, let alone his own country!

It's scary.

Romney is a sociopath so far as I'm concerned. He shows not a flicker of remorse with regards to his bare-face lies...
 
NewYorkSpurs said:
Undecided, but leaning that way. Voted Obama in 2008, not eager to do it again.
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Fair play. Do you think Obama could have done better with the congress he had?

Also his key policy achievement is the healthcare bill. Do you think it should be repealed?

If they pass Ryan's budget it will devastate the US. Cutting education at the expense of a massive increase in military expenditure? fudging immoral in my opinion.
 
thfcsteff said:
Mitt Romney is a dangerous man.
He is literally able to just say what people want to hear with no immediate consequences, and do so with a sociopathic smile and charm about his manner.
I genuinely felt Obama got caught in the 'Gore' trap i.e. if I patronize him too much, if I slam him hard, I will be looked at as a smarmy bully.

Tragically, intelligence and honesty are NOT pre-requisite qualities to win these Presidential debates.

Last night, Romney basically said (in a very authorative way) that he people would be able to have their cake and eat it. EVERYONE wants to hear THAT. No-one gives a flying fudge that Obama has had to battle 9 years of down-the-bricker war economy thanks to Bush, let alone his own country!

It's scary.

Romney is a sociopath so far as I'm concerned. He shows not a flicker of remorse with regards to his bare-face lies...
Click to expand...

To be fair, I find that many politicians exhibit this trait. They only want one thing from voters: their votes, and they will do anything they can to get re-elected. Of course, the cream rises to the top (or in this case, the flimflam floats to the surface) and Romney is an exceptional trumper.

But in times of distress, The Onion is always there to comfort me.
 
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