Medical Department

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Let's dump all our human beings and replace them with machines, lot easy to fix. Is there any medical condition which can be guaranteed to be fixed in a precise time to all individuals? The club can't win, if they say 6 weeks and it's longer they are in the wrong, if it's earlier and the player gets an other injury they are wrong for rushing them back. They'll be ready when the manager feels confident to pick them.

 

[MKSpur]

Rose,lamela and dembele seem to have missed large spells on more than one occasion, I'd say they will all struggle to put in a full season. I'd say Rose is too combative, he regularly seemed to get taken out every game too, Dembele has been nursing something for a while that may need managing ala King and his knee and Lamela has seemed fragile from day 1. Wanyama is a bit of a worry but I guess it's more important to make sure they get fit and don't break down again which would elongate the actual time out.

 

[parklane1]

I know I'll get lambasted for this because 'fans have the right to voice their opinion, whatever it may be' .. But 'kinnel, I swear some of our supporters aren't happy unless they're complaining about something, ANYTHING.

This.

Let's dump all our human beings and replace them with machines, lot easy to fix. Is there any medical condition which can be guaranteed to be fixed in a precise time to all individuals? The club can't win, if they say 6 weeks and it's longer they are in the wrong, if it's earlier and the player gets an other injury they are wrong for rushing them back. They'll be ready when the manager feels confident to pick them.

And this.

There is nothing wrong with our Medical Department, injurys are part and parcel of the game and ALL clubs suffer from them at times. Shows how well our team/manager/players are doing if we have to start moaning about our Medical Department.

 

[metalgear]

I think the way we play... and poch's disdain for maxing out subs...takes out more from our starting eleven. Not surprised to see that we don't press as hard this season.


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[milo]

I think the way we play... and poch's disdain for maxing out subs...takes out more from our starting eleven. Not surprised to see that we don't press as hard this season.

If it was such a problem, how come we finished last season so strongly?

I think that we will press harder once we hit peak form once winter sets in. We had a similar slower tempo start to last season.

I think that it is just the case that we are aware and focus on our own injuries but largely overlook what happens at other clubs.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

I think the way we play... and poch's disdain for maxing out subs...takes out more from our starting eleven. Not surprised to see that we don't press as hard this season.


Sent from my iPad using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

If it was such a problem, how come we finished last season so strongly?

I think that we will press harder once we hit peak form once winter sets in. We had a similar slower tempo start to last season.

I think that it is just the case that we are aware and focus on our own injuries but largely overlook what happens at other clubs.

I recall when last season started we were all wondering what had happened to our pressing game compared to the season before. Then came the home game against City, around this time, and we pressed them relentlessly all over the pitch, chaseing down every single ball with a determination that had been missing up to that point.
It's clearly all a part of the bigger plan, a deliberate decision as to when we are ready and fit enough to play that way.

 

[metalgear]

I recall when last season started we were all wondering what had happened to our pressing game compared to the season before. Then came the home game against City, around this time, and we pressed them relentlessly all over the pitch, chaseing down every single ball with a determination that had been missing up to that point.
It's clearly all a part of the bigger plan, a deliberate decision as to when we are ready and fit enough to play that way.

its smart and so much better this way. do what you need not just relentlessly playing one way - like liverpool. in this respect poch has improved vastly.

 

[awesome dawson]

How so?
What specifically do you mean by the management of the situation?

Management of the situation, i.e. who/when the decision to have surgery was made, allowing him lengthy periods of time to return to his country of birth or go on holiday with his misses, timing of the whole saga. Surely you understand what management of a situation means?

Based on what?

The fact that the misdiagnosis of the extent of his hip problem meant we wasted at least six months. Poch and Lamela seem as frustrated as anyone but a year out for the relatively minor operation that he had is an undeniably poor outcome for the club.

 

[braineclipse]

its smart and so much better this way. do what you need not just relentlessly playing one way - like liverpool. in this respect poch has improved vastly.

Improved vastly or done the right thing all along?

When he first came to the club we were in a post-AVB&Sherwood shambles. Attitude, fitness, ability, style of play... It was all a mess and loads of uncertainties. Pochettino implemented a style of play, focused on the players with the right attitude, shifted the players that didn't fit and recruited well. When that style of play had been established and the squad was made up of the right kind of players he could start introducing more tactical flexibility. I think a large degree of single mindedness was a very good idea to get to the stage where flexibility was possible.

Not saying he hasn't learned or improved along the way. Not saying he hasn't tweaked or changed his mind at all. I just think it's unfair to judge his previous choices by what has worked at a later stage. We really have no idea if what he's doing now would have worked 2-3 years ago. And we have no idea what he considered and rejected, and for what reason, at different stages.

 

[Shropshire Yid]

I have theory on this.

Ever since Sandro, our Injury "information" has gone very non committal.

If you look at the loss of value on him, after his operations to the knee etc, at the time his value at least halved if not more.
I think its a decision from the top (Levy) that we release very little info and also, we do not operate where we can get away with it, and therefore players keep a higher value. I think Lamela and Rose situations should have been resolved a lot quicker if the first answer was to operate, but they was not and they tried a natural healing process, which takes longer but doesn't appear on medical records to be used against us in negotiation.

Just my theory.....

 

[braineclipse]

I have theory on this.

Ever since Sandro, our Injury "information" has gone very non committal.

If you look at the loss of value on him, after his operations to the knee etc, at the time his value at least halved if not more.
I think its a decision from the top (Levy) that we release very little info and also, we do not operate where we can get away with it, and therefore players keep a higher value. I think Lamela and Rose situations should have been resolved a lot quicker if the first answer was to operate, but they was not and they tried a natural healing process, which takes longer but doesn't appear on medical records to be used against us in negotiation.

Just my theory.....

I also think it's about natural healing being better for the player long term. Might take a bit longer, but worth it a lot of the time.

Those decisions will always be difficult to make. If it's the case that our medical department are making the wrong decisions more often than should be expected criticism is obviously fair. But non medical experts without access to the information can't judge that from the outside.

I would get the complaints if we had a particularly bad injury record. But we don't...

 

[metalgear]

Improved vastly or done the right thing all along?

When he first came to the club we were in a post-AVB&Sherwood shambles. Attitude, fitness, ability, style of play... It was all a mess and loads of uncertainties. Pochettino implemented a style of play, focused on the players with the right attitude, shifted the players that didn't fit and recruited well. When that style of play had been established and the squad was made up of the right kind of players he could start introducing more tactical flexibility. I think a large degree of single mindedness was a very good idea to get to the stage where flexibility was possible.

Not saying he hasn't learned or improved along the way. Not saying he hasn't tweaked or changed his mind at all. I just think it's unfair to judge his previous choices by what has worked at a later stage. We really have no idea if what he's doing now would have worked 2-3 years ago. And we have no idea what he considered and rejected, and for what reason, at different stages.

yep true we know nothing and therefore no point talking about it
just wondering are you only saying this to me or to everyone who posts their views here...

 

[Kandi1977]

I have theory on this.

Ever since Sandro, our Injury "information" has gone very non committal.

If you look at the loss of value on him, after his operations to the knee etc, at the time his value at least halved if not more.
I think its a decision from the top (Levy) that we release very little info and also, we do not operate where we can get away with it, and therefore players keep a higher value. I think Lamela and Rose situations should have been resolved a lot quicker if the first answer was to operate, but they was not and they tried a natural healing process, which takes longer but doesn't appear on medical records to be used against us in negotiation.

Just my theory.....

You might be right that natural healing is the preferred method, but linking that with Levy and valuation of the player is pretty far fetched imo.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Management of the situation, i.e. who/when the decision to have surgery was made, allowing him lengthy periods of time to return to his country of birth or go on holiday with his misses, timing of the whole saga. Surely you understand what management of a situation means?



The fact that the misdiagnosis of the extent of his hip problem meant we wasted at least six months. Poch and Lamela seem as frustrated as anyone but a year out for the relatively minor operation that he had is an undeniably poor outcome for the club.

It's not a misdiagnosis. It is surgery is treatment choice of last resort. Always.

 

[awesome dawson]

It's not a misdiagnosis. It is surgery is treatment choice of last resort. Always.

It's more complicated than that. By trying to avoid surgery for six months (at least) we sent to Italy, Argentina etc, maybe because he didn't want the operation, maybe because the scans weren't clear enough.

He's an asset of the club, which gets into a grey area where you've got a player who disagrees with a suggested course of treatment. Either way it looks like the Club was right. Surgery was needed. Going for a month of Playstation and pizza in Rome wasn't going to cure his problem funnily enough.

He had arthroscopic hip surgery which is an extremely routine and relatively non invasive type of operation. He's a healthy elite athlete so the chances of something going wrong are extremely minimal.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

It's more complicated than that. By trying to avoid surgery for six months (at least) we sent to Italy, Argentina etc, maybe because he didn't want the operation, maybe because the scans weren't clear enough.

He's an asset of the club, which gets into a grey area where you've got a player who disagrees with a suggested course of treatment. Either way it looks like the Club was right. Surgery was needed. Going for a month of Playstation and pizza in Rome wasn't going to cure his problem funnily enough.

He had arthroscopic hip surgery which is an extremely routine and relatively non invasive type of operation. He's a healthy elite athlete so the chances of something going wrong are extremely minimal.

It's not more complicated than that.
The basic medical rule is, conservative treatment first. And by the way Poch speaks of the way he treats his players, he would be in full agreement. They are people to him before footballers.
Surgery will always leave a legacy. If you have an issue that came on slowly or is chronic it is reasonable to think it can be unwound.
How Lamela behaved during this period is another matter. But the club medical dept were following the correct protocol.

 

[braineclipse]

yep true we know nothing and therefore no point talking about it
just wondering are you only saying this to me or to everyone who posts their views here...

I think we can post, discuss, agree and disagree without concluding on what is unknowable.

 

[awesome dawson]

Can the mods merge this waffling thread with the Injuries thread? Seems a duplication of nonsense.

 

[Jordinho]

I've moved some posts about injured players to the injuries thread as this one is about the people who treat them.

 

[Mr_B]

i've never really understood how in the 70's teams played with 15 players for the whole season, there was only one sub, the ball was a rock, pitches were abysmal, tackles were hard and rarely penalized yet players these days are falling like flies and out for ages for simple things.?