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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked
- Thread starter DubaiSpur
- Start date
glasgowspur
Chris Jones
Why will he not go to United, Ryan Giggs. As long as Giggs or any of the rest of the class of 92 are hanging about it's a mess.
Didn't Ferguson say in his book Mourinho turned it down?
I would be very confident of Poch doing so if they came in for him in the summer
Cochise
Steve Carr
I absolutely hate the double standards on which these journalist's work. One minute they talk about how they would love to see a story like Leicester or Spurs, the next they want to see it destroyed to maintain the status quo. Which do they want, the magic of seeing the underdog taking everyone by suprise or the super rich clubs at the top squabbling over who sits in positions 1-4 each year?
The moment we start to look like a force in the league every paper is running stories on how every player we have is going to be taken from us. Now they want to take Poch to truly destroy us. One thing for sure is that if Poch were to go there is that Levy would make sure that he couldn't poach players he has worked with at Spurs. I also don't foresee the fire sale that Southampton had happening here so Poch will have to start another rebuilding project there.
I think now is when we have to really cement our spot in the top four and go on a run. Personally I want third just because I can see Chelsea doing the unthinkable and winning the Champions League if we finish fourth.
<<Puts on tin foil hat>>
The moment we start to look like a force in the league every paper is running stories on how every player we have is going to be taken from us. Now they want to take Poch to truly destroy us. One thing for sure is that if Poch were to go there is that Levy would make sure that he couldn't poach players he has worked with at Spurs. I also don't foresee the fire sale that Southampton had happening here so Poch will have to start another rebuilding project there.
I think now is when we have to really cement our spot in the top four and go on a run. Personally I want third just because I can see Chelsea doing the unthinkable and winning the Champions League if we finish fourth.
<<Puts on tin foil hat>>
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Les Medley
United have turned into the poisoned chalice. Not many top managers would like the situation where Waldorf and Statler are sitting in the stands like a pair of vultures picking at their prey.
Baleforce
Mark Falco
I thought the story went that he was in tears when he didn't get it?
Yeah that's the story I read but since then I have read that supposedly SAF contradicts that
Baleforce
Mark Falco
I think we have a reasonable chance of hanging on to Poch even if Utd came in. Yes, they're a massive club with plenty of cash however if Poch's comments last week about building a dynasty are correct then he wouldn't want to leave. I also don't see him as the Ancelotti type who wants to change club every 1-2 seasons
Well there was a 25 year period where they didn't need a new manager and that only ended recently, so I don't think there really is a precedent.
I also think Utd today is a lot less attractive than Utd the day Fergie left
milo
Jack L. Jones
They want to sell papers and drive traffic to their websites.
It is completely wrong to think that a newspaper is doing the work of the top four. They don't give a toss about any club, they just want a story that attracts readers.
Cochise
Steve Carr
I know their primary aim is to increase their readers etc, but I just wish we didn't have to listen to the constant noise about who from our club is going where every time we start to look good. Were we suddenly to start paying our players top wages and in the Champs League, would the stories linking all our best players suddenly cease? We are a few years on from Liverpool's demise and they are now treated as an also ran. Could the same happen to someone like UTD or Chelsea if we managed to climb into the top four and stay there?
I don't think it would in the case with UTD. They are the club that the media love, not just because of what Ferguson did during his time in charge, but also because of what happened in the decades prior to that. They have an image and we still hear about the UTD way, with two wingers etc, quoted romantically by their fans as they get all misty eyed.
We have an image also. Our fans are a bunch of deluded fantasists who think we are one of the big teams in England despite having not won the league since the 60's. We are a cup side who have nice players but who never have the metal to keep a run of form going in the league. We have a weak centre and always sell our best players every couple of years because we love the money. Not the players themselves refusing to play or forcing moves, no, Daniel Levy loves his money. He bathes in it infact, that's why we constantly sell, because he needs clean cash to scrub himself with, hence why we don't do business with Chelsea.
For all that to change would cause a major upset.
The script that the papers want to write is that of the kings of England returning to their rightful place at the top of table and reclaiming their throne. The little upstart from London will be turfed out of the party and will have to settle for its station in life. We aren't meant to be having idea's above our station.
It doesn't matter that the kings are where they are because they have roostered up, nor does it matter that the little upstart has got where it is from being industrious and working in the right manner. What matters is history and stature and they are of the nobility whilst we are just commoners.
I don't think it would in the case with UTD. They are the club that the media love, not just because of what Ferguson did during his time in charge, but also because of what happened in the decades prior to that. They have an image and we still hear about the UTD way, with two wingers etc, quoted romantically by their fans as they get all misty eyed.
We have an image also. Our fans are a bunch of deluded fantasists who think we are one of the big teams in England despite having not won the league since the 60's. We are a cup side who have nice players but who never have the metal to keep a run of form going in the league. We have a weak centre and always sell our best players every couple of years because we love the money. Not the players themselves refusing to play or forcing moves, no, Daniel Levy loves his money. He bathes in it infact, that's why we constantly sell, because he needs clean cash to scrub himself with, hence why we don't do business with Chelsea.
For all that to change would cause a major upset.
The script that the papers want to write is that of the kings of England returning to their rightful place at the top of table and reclaiming their throne. The little upstart from London will be turfed out of the party and will have to settle for its station in life. We aren't meant to be having idea's above our station.
It doesn't matter that the kings are where they are because they have roostered up, nor does it matter that the little upstart has got where it is from being industrious and working in the right manner. What matters is history and stature and they are of the nobility whilst we are just commoners.
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milo
Jack L. Jones
Sports coverage is exactly the same as celebrity gossip now. I ignore Heat and Closer and all of those other magazines, it is best to treat most sports stories the same.
Maltese Falcon
Niko Kranjcar
My two threads of hope if Manure do try to tempt Poch.
1. Poch wants total loyalty and complete buy-in into his tough pressing philosophy. That is why he invariably opts for younger, hungry players who he can mold into his way of playing. Can you imagine players like Mata, Depay, Schweinsteiger etc doing that? Will he get rid of half of United's team and even then, if he does, he will invariably have to buy established stars because of marketing issues related to Utd
2. People look at Poch dumping Saints after a full year and attribute that to ambition to move to a bigger club. He went on record saying that he only moved because Cortese was kicked out. He seems to have a great rapport with Levy and sees his job in the longer term - at least if that Portugese or Spanish magazine interview is anything to go by; he said he would not move to Real at the moment, so why should he go to a team in decline and be in the shadow of Fergie's achievements; until red-nose kicks the bucket, any United coach will have a poisoned chalice.
1. Poch wants total loyalty and complete buy-in into his tough pressing philosophy. That is why he invariably opts for younger, hungry players who he can mold into his way of playing. Can you imagine players like Mata, Depay, Schweinsteiger etc doing that? Will he get rid of half of United's team and even then, if he does, he will invariably have to buy established stars because of marketing issues related to Utd
2. People look at Poch dumping Saints after a full year and attribute that to ambition to move to a bigger club. He went on record saying that he only moved because Cortese was kicked out. He seems to have a great rapport with Levy and sees his job in the longer term - at least if that Portugese or Spanish magazine interview is anything to go by; he said he would not move to Real at the moment, so why should he go to a team in decline and be in the shadow of Fergie's achievements; until red-nose kicks the bucket, any United coach will have a poisoned chalice.
DubaiSpur
Jack Jull
Eh. One of the dangers of hero-worshipping managers to any extent is that the next guy finds it that much harder to keep the fans onside and the players following his instructions when he does take over. Poch is a brilliant guy, and a good manager ,and a lot of our players owe him an awful lot given the way he kick-started their careers and brought them into the limelight. But all that only makes it more essential that Levy (and the rest of the hierarchy) keeps succession plans in place for when Poch does leave, and keeps the players focused on the idea that they're playing for the club, not the manager.
If Poch leaves, he leaves. What we can't have is an exodus among the playing staff as a result of him leaving, which is what happened to Southampton as well. It's why I get worried when the likes of Trippier come out and say that the reason they joined the club so readily is because they were convinced by a single conversation with Poch: it also implies that, should Poch leave and then return to the club to poach some of our players, those lads will just as easily jump ship again/agitate to move.
If Poch leaves, he leaves. What we can't have is an exodus among the playing staff as a result of him leaving, which is what happened to Southampton as well. It's why I get worried when the likes of Trippier come out and say that the reason they joined the club so readily is because they were convinced by a single conversation with Poch: it also implies that, should Poch leave and then return to the club to poach some of our players, those lads will just as easily jump ship again/agitate to move.
Bullet
Barry Daines
Agreed, you need at least three buttons done up to keep it tight, or you'll be wide open on a windy midweek night in Stoke. At the very least you should have a double-pivot, but to leave just one fastened is asking for trouble. Imagine the stress on that one thread trying to keep it all together, before you know it he can't take the strain and we concede a fully open frontage.
braineclipse
Garth Crooks
How is this different from saying that "one of the dangers with a good manager is that the next guy will find it harder to take over"?
Pochettino's qualities in these areas is a benefit to us as a club. Hopefully he will stay with us for a long time, but if he doesn't I would rather have that benefit now than not have it.
The Southampton exodus would probably have happened regardless. Even I don't think Pochettino is THAT good... Could he have kept Shaw happy at Southampton when United came in for him? I don't see it.
Also worth noting that Pochettino left Southampton after they got rid of his mate Cortese after Pochettino had said he would leave too if they got rid of Cortese. But he stayed for the rest of the season at least. I might be overly optimistic about this stuff, but I think Pochettino is really enjoying life at Spurs now, enjoying his relationship with Levy and enjoying being at an ambitious club that he can help improve. Not sure his working relationship at most of the bigger clubs would be as good and I think he knows it. Fingers crossed...
DubaiSpur
Jack Jull
Simple: player loyalty. Some of the best managers (I'm thinking of Pep here, but there are others) create brilliant teams that win trophies galore, but at the end of the day, when they leave, the players themselves don't all yearn to go with them: they understand that they're playing for the club, not the coach, who just happened to be a very good one appointed by the club. Look at Dortmund post-Klopp, as one illustrative example: he took that club from mid-table obscurity to multiple Bundesliga titles over the course of seven years, but the players immediately knuckled down when Tuchel came in last June (seamlessly adopting Tuchel's somewhat different style), and none of them have made noises about wanting to follow Klopp to Liverpool despite his evident success as a manager and his development of those same players.
There is such a thing as players being too loyal to a coach over the club that pays their wages. It's one of the dangers that comes with appointing a charismatic manager like Poch who likes bringing through youth players and turning mediocre footballers into great ones: those players end up owing their careers to him in many cases, and it creates some tension when the manager (in this case, Poch) ups sticks to go to a club like United and then returns to tempt some of our players into joining him.
It's happened before, at S'oton: Rodriguez and Schneiderlin specifically wanted transfers to us because of their desire to play under Poch again to a considerable extent, judging by the news at the time (aside from our obvious appeal, of course), and there's obviously a danger of that happening here as well if Poch goes to a larger club that can then tempt our lads with higher wages and continued development under the coach that gave them their chance.
It's fine to be overly optimistic as a fan, but it's a terrible, terrible way to run a club. I do hope Levy's made plans for the possibility (and eventual certainty) of Poch leaving, and has tried his best to impress on our lads that, come what may, they're playing for Tottenham Hotspur, not Mauricio Pochettino. We've got a happy little situation here, with a good manager (and a good man, by all accounts) overseeing a good bunch of lads during an exciting time for the club, but that doesn't mean we can lose ourselves in the happiness of the moment and ignore the ramifications of it falling apart if that manager does leave.