Bedfordspurs
Arthur Rowe
But who does he replace them with?
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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked
- Thread starter DubaiSpur
- Start date
But who does he replace them with?
glasgowspur
Nayim
Exactly.
When the team was announced I posted that imo that was our strongest team.
But Toby, Rose and Wanyama aren't match fit, Harry is struggling and lamela isn't starting regularly.
That's question marks over half the team.
So other than son and dier who have also had their struggles recently or moura who maybe isn't quite ready who is the form players that aren't playing? Sissoko, winks, aurier.
Injuries and dips in form have caught up with us at a bad time.
3rd 2nd 4th (potentially 3rd) would be a huge step forward even for a club that has consistently been top 5 before his arrival - we've gone from a club hoping for a top 4 finish to one which is now demanding of it and at the top end of the richest league in the world whilst working on the lowest budget of them all small gains on paper like that are more than it appears
Bedfordspurs
Arthur Rowe
Moving up one place in this league at the top costs roughly £100m per place
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Baleforce
Martin Peters
we are less than the sum of our parts this season, we've fleetingly played well and never really had all of the weapons firing at the same time, we started badly, had an iffy bit in the middle and are finishing badly
we may overachieve to our means by claiming CL (and this should be lauded), but even if we end up third we won't have anywhere near the points tally this squad is capable of
we may overachieve to our means by claiming CL (and this should be lauded), but even if we end up third we won't have anywhere near the points tally this squad is capable of
Didn't it take Fergie 4/5 years to win the first trophy at Utd?
(Used cos he was a success at the Dons before he moved, yet couldn't make it instant at Utd.)
We've been getting steadily better season to season, sure ups n downs on the way, but nonetheless we have improved in so many ways thanks to Poch - and yes I'll give you that he frustrates sometimes with his choices but in the main the guy has been a massive breath of fresh air and a success with us (yes, a success)
Half the moaners here most likely said that 4th or 5th given we were playing at Wembley would be fine, granted expectations do alter during the season but imo we got kicked in the face vs Juve and then had our kidneys pulled out vs Manure and it's been a huge disappointment to Poch and is adversely affecting him and the team.
(that crap affects us all regardless of income, job or being a "professional" - still just a human mind at end of day)
But to get rid of him??
I mean, seriously??
Oh you were serious? Well, just remember, the grass isn't always greener on the other side so be careful what you wish for.
If he goes and you get your wish, don't sit here in a years time crying if we're 8th or 9th.
(You may of course lord it over me if we win the league or cl
)
(Used cos he was a success at the Dons before he moved, yet couldn't make it instant at Utd.)
We've been getting steadily better season to season, sure ups n downs on the way, but nonetheless we have improved in so many ways thanks to Poch - and yes I'll give you that he frustrates sometimes with his choices but in the main the guy has been a massive breath of fresh air and a success with us (yes, a success)
Half the moaners here most likely said that 4th or 5th given we were playing at Wembley would be fine, granted expectations do alter during the season but imo we got kicked in the face vs Juve and then had our kidneys pulled out vs Manure and it's been a huge disappointment to Poch and is adversely affecting him and the team.
(that crap affects us all regardless of income, job or being a "professional" - still just a human mind at end of day)
But to get rid of him??
I mean, seriously??
Oh you were serious? Well, just remember, the grass isn't always greener on the other side so be careful what you wish for.
If he goes and you get your wish, don't sit here in a years time crying if we're 8th or 9th.
(You may of course lord it over me if we win the league or cl
)
We are over achieving in comparison to expenditure but to say Poch has got us massively over achieving is OTT for me. Consistent CL qualification is an obvious improvement which is fantastic. But the next step is essentially to win the league and that’s the hardest step and also why it’s always easier to say we are over achieving compared to chelsea, Man U etc Because for them anything other than winning the league is under achievement whereas for us top 6 is par and anything above is considered over achieving and that is an easier target than having the pressure of winning the league or being deemed a failure. You can’t guarantee that if Poch was managing Chelsea or Man U hed win the league, and you could make a case for a Conte or Mourinho achieving top 4 with us. Anyway I love Poch still, so whatever....
Personally I'd say it's harder to get us where we are, with our budget than it is to get Chelsea or United winning the league - getting us where we are atm is one of the toughest jobs going - the financial disparity between us and the rest of the top 6 is bigger than between us and the teams fighting for relegation, the glass window we have smashed through by getting here should not be downplayed or underestimated.
We're spending less in relation to our rivals than at any other point under Levy and yet are outperforming any other team put together under him, make no mistake Poch deserves the credit for that and id have little doubt him moving on would see us slip back to being a side hoping for top 4 should our finances remain the same
Of course Poch deserves credit for where we are. But legitimate questions remain on whether he’s hit his ceiling or not, he doesn’t have form for winning things.He’s great at getting clubs to achieve better than their status and there are many coaches out there like that because they are at clubs where the pressure isn’t that great.But you know the way football works, we are at the level we are and there are going to be demands - in fact there are already for our club to achieve actual success from both players and fans. And it’s a legitimate question to ask whether Poch is actually the coach to do that. I’m not saying he can’t, but I can’t say definitely he is either. There are other coaches who you would be more confident would come in and do the job - the poster who suggested Ancelotti or Simeone, you couldnt really argue against that could you? Poch deserves more time, but with us moving into the new stadium and the pressure Levy will have from agents knowing that our players will want away if we aren’t winning things - he isn’t untouchable if he continues to just win the Top 4 trophy we used to laugh at when that’s all Arsenal was achieving....
If we were a side that should be demanding trophies then i think that would be it would be fair to ask whether he has hit a cieling with us, not sure that's us atm, possibly last season and of course you have to factor in he is a young developing manager himself and allowing him to develop here could be to our benefit rather than writing him off as soon as he hits a dodgy patch (the fact this is even considered a dodgy patch says it all really)
The reason Arsenal were laughed at, btw, for the top 4 trophy stuff is because for them it was no achievement to finish 4th, that was their expected minimum based on finances, ours is 6th so finishing top 4 for us is actually something of note - if that's all we're getting after several years in the new stadium when we are on a much more even footing with the sides we are competing with that will be the time to complain, not now.
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mudshark
Chris Armstrong
Letting Pochettino go would be a bad, bad move. Seriously. Nonsense at this stage of things.
Having said that, it's obvious why there's suddenly all this negativity. We'd been mid-table cloggers for over a decade before the first few green shoots under Jol, and since those days, the club themselves have fostered the expectation, more or less, of year-on-year improvement. When it hasn't been delivered, there's usually only been once consequence. Jol said it himself: when he got us 5th, the attitude wasn't so much, "That's marvellous, congratulations, well done," it was, "Ok, now you've got to get 4th."
We've been encouraged to believe (or at least not discouraged from believing) that once we "broke" the top 4, things would be different. We'd have arrived and there'd be no more looking over our shoulder all the time. Talented players would want to come, and we'd be happy to have them at more of a going rate. And for the past couple of seasons, it's looked as though that's more or less the direction things are moving in.
Once you create that expectation, that the New Order at the top of the league will include us, then irrespective of what might seem obvious to some as the underlying economic reality, even the slightest hint that we might be sucked back into the chasing pack again, scrapping it out for the dubious honour of a Europa League spot, and it shouldn't be any surprise when alarm bells go off all over the place. And there have been a few hints, recently.
On top of that, there's been all the new stadium hoo-hah. That was going to be the real game-changer, once it came on-line. The essential last piece to be put in place for the club to begin really to compete on something approaching a level footing with... Oh.
Yes, now that hymn seems to have changed subtly as well, and it appears the riches won't be flowing quite so readily, quite so soon after all. Instead, we learn (surprise, surprise) there's more austerity to come. More jam tomorrow. It's not really a massive leap from there, again irrespective of what might seem obvious to some as the underlying economic reality, to the implication that perhaps what was so essential about the new stadium had rather more to do with boosting the club's overall value than with the intention to commit to a stronger investment in sporting matters. Questions, questions....
I do wonder whether it's just a coincidence how Pochettino's whole demeanour seems to have altered since that little nugget popped out, as well. And delivered out of his own mouth, no less.
Maybe it is. Or had he perhaps been encouraged to believe (or at least not discouraged from believing) it would all be different in the rich uplands of NWHL too? We shall perhaps never know, but at the moment, something doesn't seem right at all.
Having said that, it's obvious why there's suddenly all this negativity. We'd been mid-table cloggers for over a decade before the first few green shoots under Jol, and since those days, the club themselves have fostered the expectation, more or less, of year-on-year improvement. When it hasn't been delivered, there's usually only been once consequence. Jol said it himself: when he got us 5th, the attitude wasn't so much, "That's marvellous, congratulations, well done," it was, "Ok, now you've got to get 4th."
We've been encouraged to believe (or at least not discouraged from believing) that once we "broke" the top 4, things would be different. We'd have arrived and there'd be no more looking over our shoulder all the time. Talented players would want to come, and we'd be happy to have them at more of a going rate. And for the past couple of seasons, it's looked as though that's more or less the direction things are moving in.
Once you create that expectation, that the New Order at the top of the league will include us, then irrespective of what might seem obvious to some as the underlying economic reality, even the slightest hint that we might be sucked back into the chasing pack again, scrapping it out for the dubious honour of a Europa League spot, and it shouldn't be any surprise when alarm bells go off all over the place. And there have been a few hints, recently.
On top of that, there's been all the new stadium hoo-hah. That was going to be the real game-changer, once it came on-line. The essential last piece to be put in place for the club to begin really to compete on something approaching a level footing with... Oh.
Yes, now that hymn seems to have changed subtly as well, and it appears the riches won't be flowing quite so readily, quite so soon after all. Instead, we learn (surprise, surprise) there's more austerity to come. More jam tomorrow. It's not really a massive leap from there, again irrespective of what might seem obvious to some as the underlying economic reality, to the implication that perhaps what was so essential about the new stadium had rather more to do with boosting the club's overall value than with the intention to commit to a stronger investment in sporting matters. Questions, questions....
I do wonder whether it's just a coincidence how Pochettino's whole demeanour seems to have altered since that little nugget popped out, as well. And delivered out of his own mouth, no less.
Maybe it is. Or had he perhaps been encouraged to believe (or at least not discouraged from believing) it would all be different in the rich uplands of NWHL too? We shall perhaps never know, but at the moment, something doesn't seem right at all.
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I agree, I’m very much pro Poch but I take exception to those who make out like it’s some massive over reaction to ever question him - I think it’s fair for those to question how much further he can take us due to his unproven track record prior to us. Whatever the time is that we agree is a logical time to complain about lack of progress, the nature of football is that he won’t get the time of several more seasons. If we even go one or two more seasons without signs of significant progress Eriksen, Kane etc really will be in danger of leaving and that will set us back no matter how much we’d like to suggest otherwise. And you have to factor in the impatient nature of fans expectations, whether realistic or not the reality is Poch won’t get several more seasons to just continue to achieve top 4 and not win anything. I hope it works out with him, I really do....
Yermiyahu
Scott Parker
I didn't used to laugh , I used to dream of my own club playing CL football. I think I may have mentioned this before, but about 20 years ago, A big loud fat Gooner got right in my face in a pub in London and stated "Tottenham will never, ever play Champions League football" and whilst my reply to him involved both sex and travel, in my heart of hearts I made him about right, I jut couldn't see it happening. Whilst I have my reservations about Poch, I'm also acutely aware that he has transformed our club. I remember the last time we appointed a 'trophy winner' in Andre Villas Boas and what a disaster that was. Calm heads are needed right now.
Well don’t forget it was Harry that gave us CL football, and he did that taking a team who were second bottom (granted we would never of stayed in that position) and took them to CL very next season. Poch at least inherited a team who was on more of an upward curve already playing European football....
Are people actually suggsting replacing Poch.... I mean are some of you being serious or just on a wind up?
We rightly rip the tinkle out of arsenal fans for their sense of entitlement... yet we are arguably being more kuntish then them.
Replace poch... you guys are having a laugh.
Let' be clear here. If we finish 5th we are still overachieving. Don't give me 'with this squad we should be doing better' because poch has developed the squad into the players they are now.... And if he leaves you can say goodbye to a lot of them as well.
And when they go you can't cry why weren't they loyal ... because anyone even fleetingly considering that it would be good to replace poch has no right at all to want any loyalty from any of our players... ever.
We rightly rip the tinkle out of arsenal fans for their sense of entitlement... yet we are arguably being more kuntish then them.
Replace poch... you guys are having a laugh.
Let' be clear here. If we finish 5th we are still overachieving. Don't give me 'with this squad we should be doing better' because poch has developed the squad into the players they are now.... And if he leaves you can say goodbye to a lot of them as well.
And when they go you can't cry why weren't they loyal ... because anyone even fleetingly considering that it would be good to replace poch has no right at all to want any loyalty from any of our players... ever.
Yermiyahu
Scott Parker
I certainly haven't forgotten Harry's contribution to the cause. Poch inherited a difficult mess of a squad after AVB and Timmehs screw ups, with people like Adebayor and Kaboul leading the mutiny. As I've said before,I'm not oblivious to Poch's faults but after watching us through the 90's and early 2000's through the Chairmanship of Alan Sugar where we were being left far, far behind, the fact that we are consistently competitive is heart warming to say the least. I recognise the need to stay competitive and win trophy's, hopefully with Poch leading us to the promised land.
DeleHarry
Jose Dominguez
and there were many Spurs fans who couldnt wait to get rid of Harry no matter how well we did because of their hatred of him. They are probably now the ones defending Poch