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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

Finney Is Back said:
From watching Toby on Saturday I think it is clear that he isn't putting in a shift, Watford's goal showed this as clear as day. I think Vertonghen is still giving his all (and I cannot understand why he hasn't been given an extension). I think Rose is still trying, he is just not as good as the player he was a few seasons ago, perhaps because he gets less protection from his midfield compared to when we had Dembele and Wanyama (or Dier) at their peak?
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Tobys legs have gone and as you say he really is not putting in a shift ( i would leave him out going forward), i also think Jan is struggling but i do believe its more to do With Toby and Rose being useless and he is left with not much cover and is being run ragged trying to cover both of them and i would hope we do give him that extension.
 
harr1984 said:
This is exactly how I see it. Poch has done great things for us, and deserves some time to make the transitions required in the squad unless things get ridiculously bad and we get involved in a relegations scrap.
However, as the leader he has made several massive mistakes and deserves the criticism he gets. Still there are a few who are defending just about all of his actions as if he is beyond criticism. He isn't some sort of GHod, he's done some great things for us but he hasn't won a single thing in his managerial career so its not unreasonable to question his methods. He's made ridiculous selection decisions on several occasions, said some ridiculous things in the media that no matter how much BoL constantly bangs on about it being selective quotes aren't things you want to hear either as a fan or as a player - and now Poch is reaping the rewards....
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Break down for me which quotes exactly are the ones which have turned the squad against him? Above I was responding to the idea that he was going in on the fans after the Watford game, ‘similar to Mourinho’ etc, when it was really nothing of the sort. He even says ‘I understand the fans...’, it’s hardly slagging off the Prawn Sandwich phalanx is it?

If anything, I read his quotes at defending the players after a terrible performance. He’s justifying why they were a bit flat and using the atmosphere as something to guard them with.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Break down for me which quotes exactly are the ones which have turned the squad against him? Above I was responding to the idea that he was going in on the fans after the Watford game, ‘similar to Mourinho’ etc, when it was really nothing of the sort. He even says ‘I understand the fans...’, it’s hardly slagging off the Prawn Sandwich rude boys is it?

If anything, I read his quotes at defending the players after a terrible performance. He’s justifying why they were a bit flat and using the atmosphere as something to guard them with.
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"At the moment I don’t believe this is the best squad (I've had)"

"That’s where we are. Maybe our performances are good but you need this extra, which is mental, connection, it’s energy to be all together, not to have different agendas in the squad."

"The club needs to change my title and description. Of course I am the boss deciding the strategic play, but in another area I don't know. Today, I feel like I am the coach."

"Yeah, but that's a dealing between the club and the player. I don't need to talk too much. It's a decision between the club and the player to sign the contract" (on Sissoko's contract)

"Then I found out that United have made an approach and the player is being destabilised." (on Eric Dier being approached by United)

"To win the Champions League in this circumstance, in this season – maybe I need to think a little bit to do something different in the future. Because to repeat this miracle, you know … But for sure, I go home. Whatever happens tomorrow, I go home."

You can put whatever spin you want on these quotes, claim Poch was misquoted, that he meant something different but players are seeing and hearing all this guff. They also saw him reportedly skulk off to Barcelona after the CL final rather than travel home with the team. All this stuff erodes confidence. If the fans are feeling it, you can be sure some of the players are too.
 
Raziel said:
Well I stand corrected ..

Obviously Poch is greater than any other manager, there is no way he could expect to beat the might of Watford, Brighton & Colchester with a squad like ours, and having scored 1 goal in those three games is completely understandable, after all it's not like we have a PL & WC golden boot winner backed up by multiple goal scoring attacking midfielders.

We the club and fans must worship him, must accept a close to 50% loss ratio over more than a season, if he needs another season (who cares about CL anyway), if he needs to sell 7 players and the club has to spend 200M it is the least we can do for this guy who is the most successful manager we have every had, after all, we have never made CL or been a runner up in a cup before he joined us ..
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Erm we had done this only once since the competition started prior to Pochettino arriving at this club.
 
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parklane1 said:
Tobys legs have gone and as you say he really is not putting in a shift ( i would leave him out going forward), i also think Jan is struggling but i do believe its more to do With Toby and Rose being useless and he is left with not much cover and is being run ragged trying to cover both of them and i would hope we do give him that extension.
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I don't think Toby's legs have gone. I just think he isn't trying. Look at that Watford goal, no sprint and no lunge to try to get to the ball before Dacoure, that was a player not trying IMO.
 
It is a limited system and I don't think we can make it work with the players we have, but there have been some good attacking phases with the diamond.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I think our performances when playing something other than the diamond have been worse than the ones where we have played it. Brighton and Watford are easily our two worst performances of the season IMO.
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Easily the two worst performances of the season imv tho i think tactical discussions are somewhat of a misdirection as it's a mentality problem atm
 
Jon said:
Ouch. Good luck with that mate.

Hope it’s your left arm.... ;-)
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Yeah, it is. Happily it didn't affect my 'courting fingers'.

For my wife when we're together. Or myself on those more solitary occasions.

Regrettably, it's the hand I operate camera lenses with in my line of work. And has been a bitch typing comfortably on a computer keyboard (you just know with my rate of blather that I'm not a smart phone thumb twiddler).

Been a tough slog getting full range of motion and dexterity back into it, but it's coming along nicely.
 
DeanoAustin said:
I've been very critical of him but I'd just like to clarify - it's not because of the bad run in itself. It's how he's carrying on. I think he's disrespected the club and the players and he is giving me no confidence that he can turn it around or that he even wants to.
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I agree that he needs to up his personal vibe game big time, if only to show he wants it (and us) but IMO, he has been let down so so much by a variety of people at the club (some of whom most will never know about) that this is an accumulation. Seriously, he has really been shafted by several people over the last couple of years on and off the pitch.

It is why when people get all aggro on him and clam him off as some wastrel who doesn't give a fudge, it winds me the fudge up. Because it is NOT that simple whatsoever.

On a simple level, I find it astounding that so many people are not prepared to call out some of our players, who clearly lack the final ingredient necessary to win Champions Leagues and the like, and who are fudging HIDING OUT THERE. HIDING!!!!!!!!!!! It APPALS me mate.
 
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Finney Is Back said:
Erm we had done this only once since the PL started prior to Pochettino arriving at this club.
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I have to say, the myopia here is infuriating.
Perhaps you had to have actually been in the Wanda last June to appreciate where his journey has taken us.
Perhaps you also had to be there to witness how many of his blue chip players did not fudging show up.
He still gets clamed for playing Kane over Moura, when the shape absolutely opened up opportunities which we simply did not take advantage of. And if there is ONE player who was "unsettled by something the manager said" before the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FINAL, then you should hand your shirt over, give up your paycheck and fudge.off. Honestly. If you cannot lift yourself for a CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FINAL and have to blame the manager, then off you fudge!
 
thfcsteff said:
I agree that he needs to up his personal vibe game big time, if only to show he wants it (and us) but IMO, he has been let down so so much by a variety of people at the club (some of whom most will never know about) that this is an accumulation. Seriously, he has really been shafted by several people over the last couple of years on and off the pitch.

It is why when people get all aggro on him and clam him off as some wastrel who doesn't give a fudge, it winds me the fudge up. Because it is NOT that simple whatsoever.

On a simple level, I find it astounding that so many people are not prepared to call out some of our players, who clearly lack the final ingredient necessary to win Champions Leagues and the like, and who are fudging HIDING OUT THERE. HIDING!!!!!!!!!!! It APPALLS me mate.
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Some fair points Steff. He has been let down and no matter how tinkled I am at him, I think he's been dealt a very bad hand. The unbelievable pressure he's been under over the last few years to sustain his overachievement without a home and without new signings. What he did was absolutely remarkable. Levy pretty much ignored the short to medium term to set us up for the long term. Levy didn't stumble on some magic formula, it was always going to be a trade off and he put most of his eggs in the long term basket. Poch is the sacrificial lamb at that alter.

As for the players. I didn't see Saturday but the only individual performance I've seen this year that had me irate over the lack of fudges given was Aurier against Bayern. Eriksen has got stick but I just think the lad can be easily knocked off his game and his disappointment over not moving is effecting him. Not coz he doesn't care but because he is a bit weak mentally. He was appalling against Olympiakos but he kept showing for the ball and in any game I've seen he's run himself ragged. Rose is not dissimilar. Toby has lost a yard of pace and it's killing him. I really think the whole squad is just in a bad place mentally and it's showing. I also think Sonny is a bright spot because he has such a great attitude that he's not as affected as the rest. Ditto Lamela in a different way.

But blame isn't what we should be looking at here. It's how we move on. Levy deserves a lot of the blame but I think he has the plan and vision to continually move forward. These players are good enough to get us top 4 so the majority of them stay. Poch, to me, has reacted terribly to the position he's been put in and shown no leadership, ability or desire to turn this around and I think the players have cottoned on to that. For that reason, whether or not he caused this, he is done at the club in my opinion.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Some fair points Steff. He has been let down and no matter how tinkled I am at him, I think he's been dealt a very bad hand. The unbelievable pressure he's been under over the last few years to sustain his overachievement without a home and without new signings. What he did was absolutely remarkable. Levy pretty much ignored the short to medium term to set us up for the long term. Levy didn't stumble on some magic formula, it was always going to be a trade off and he put most of his eggs in the long term basket. Poch is the sacrificial lamb at that alter.

As for the players. I didn't see Saturday but the only individual performance I've seen this year that had me irate over the lack of fudges given was Aurier against Bayern. Eriksen has got stick but I just think the lad can be easily knocked off his game and his disappointment over not moving is effecting him. Not coz he doesn't care but because he is a bit weak mentally. He was appalling against Olympiakos but he kept showing for the ball and in any game I've seen he's run himself ragged. Rose is not dissimilar. Toby has lost a yard of pace and it's killing him. I really think the whole squad is just in a bad place mentally and it's showing. I also think Sonny is a bright spot because he has such a great attitude that he's not as affected as the rest. Ditto Lamela in a different way.

But blame isn't what we should be looking at here. It's how we move on. Levy deserves a lot of the blame but I think he has the plan and vision to continually move forward. These players are good enough to get us top 4 so the majority of them stay. Poch, to me, has reacted terribly to the position he's been put in and shown no leadership, ability or desire to turn this around and I think the players have cottoned on to that. For that reason, whether or not he caused this, he is done at the club in my opinion.
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Mate, good reading and some very fair points in return I have to say.

I hold the senior players who want to leave majorly responsible. In agree to an extent re: Eriksen, but I think despite the running around, he has generally been hiding in a lot of games I have seen this season, choosing options which are (at best) safe and which at worst simply pass on responsibility. I have a lot of time for Rose despite his decline and contract situation because he never ever hides and always gives his best. Sonny is excellent in that regard, but we are unlucky that he has hit one of his poor runs of form.

We agree to disagree on where we go. I think there is a group of players who should be moved on and this manager given a chance to build again. Unless he does not want to be here, in which case, he should leave. Otherwise, manager over those players for me mate.
 
greatwhitenorf said:
Yeah, it is. Happily it didn't affect my 'courting fingers'.

For my wife when we're together. Or myself on those more solitary occasions.

Regrettably, it's the hand I operate camera lenses with in my line of work. And has been a bitch typing comfortably on a computer keyboard (you just know with my rate of blather that I'm not a smart phone thumb twiddler).

Been a tough slog getting full range of motion and dexterity back into it, but it's coming along nicely.
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Glad to hear you’re on the mend bud.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I don't think Toby's legs have gone. I just think he isn't trying. Look at that Watford goal, no sprint and no lunge to try to get to the ball before Dacoure, that was a player not trying IMO.
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Well its been pretty obvious watching him from the stands, maybe the goal on Saturday was not down to that this time but on plenty of times this season we have seen him go walk about ( forward) and not been able to get back in time and left us short in the middle of defense.
 
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